business strike Eisenhowers (Ikes)

[leprecoin]

Hi,

was following and trying to get better understanding of the Ike's...

I always heard is "tough" to find Iks in Mint and High grades.

and both numismedia and pcgs have quit a high price on Mr. Eisenhower head

but then... all of then since 73 up are in mint sets, (avrage set population is appx 2 millions) so i bought those sets 73-78 and compered them to my graded iks.

and to my suprise they aint bad at all, I would say they get avrage 64-5 and some are even 66's (also population chart agree to that # with most graded 64-66)

 

all that leaves me very confused... are we going to see, 10's or even 100's of thousends Iks graded 65 up in the next say 10 yrs

 

and they actually sell for say $50-$250 in ms66 ?

 

also the 72, the type 1+3 seem to have numismedia tag them for appx $500.

but they sell in real life for $120 ?

 

can anyone share his/her knoledge about Iks ? maybe reffer to a web site or existing articles regard it ?

 

thx and HAPPY NEW YR !!!

[TJ'S Coins]

Good questions!

 

Mint Strike Ike's are hard to find in 66 and above. If you can find them, this may be a good modern sleeper coin. The proofs are much more common in higher grades, as would be expected, then the mint strikes.

 

Are we likely to see 10 of thousands upgraded in the next decade? Only if the grading standards and TPG's soften on their present approach.

[MikeInFL]

Wow, pretty odd for an Ike thread to come around. One of my favorite series.

 

A few points...

 

Your observation about Ikes and mint sets is for the most part accurate -- there are some quite nice examples still out there, but not nearly as many as in years past. I think there are lots of MS64s and (to a lesser extent) 65's left to be found, but the higher graded coins are as rare as the population reports indicate, and I find it unlikely unless grading standards become looser such that a huge increase in the top pops or top-pop-minus-1 will occur becuase of mint sets. The vast majotiry of these coins are baggy with impared luster and wouldn't get the MS65 much less MS66 grade, but some are out there and the patient and sharp-eyed collector will be able to make these coins himself.

 

Having a coin that looks like a MS65 or 66 is entirely different than getting said coin into a holder saying the same thing. I think you will find that PCGS and NCG are a bit tougher on the coins than you might think, and what you think are 66s are actually 65s.

 

Don't understimate the value of good luster on a 65/66 coin -- this is often the difference between the grades. Virtually all non-silver Ikes are baggy coins (kind of like Morgans) .

 

There is a huge disparity in market value between NGC and PCGS graded coins. However, there is not nearly as huge of a disparity between the grading of PCGS and NGC as the prices would indicate. The grading is fairly similar, with NGC a bit less reticent to give out ultra-high grades. For the sharp-eyed collector, crossovers between NGC and PCGS can be found, and IMO NGC graded coins are severly undervalued for the quality of coin you will get (or PCGS graded coins are severly overvalued, take your pick ).

 

Don't pay any attention to Numismedia and PCGS pricing guides for this series -- they are beyond useless. Numismedia is all over the place, with some overestimates and some underestimates. PCGS price guide is the most consistent, but it almost always overestimates the price of the higher grade coins. Look on eBay, Heritage, DLRC, and, to a lesser extent, Teletrade for accurate pricing information, and forget Numismedia and PCGS price guides.

 

Many of my best coins came from collectors, and the rest from searching mint sets. You can see my registry set of mint state Ikes including pictures here: http://www.collectors-society.com/regist...amp;Tab=gallery Larger photos can be found here: http://www.pbase.com/miker/mint_state_ikes

 

I am not aware of any particularly good websites or articles on this series, but if you PM me your e-mail address I will send you a copy of the data I track for this series, including pricing and population data.

 

Hope this helps, and all IMHO...Mike

 

p.s.. if you have a line to any $120 1972 PCGS MS 65 type 1 or 3's, I'd like to see them. Last time I checked these coins were going for aroud twice that. 1972 is the toughest year to find nice, and the prices reflect this fact.

[cpm9ball]

Mike, what is the difference between the '72, Type I, II & III? Isn't one of them supposed to have something to do with the Earth on the reverse? I have a lot of them in and/or from Mint Sets, and I would like to know how to tell the difference.

 

Chris

 

PS. That is a nice set you have!

[ldhair]

Great thread.

Supercoin's site

It's cool to know that the 71,72, and 73 silver Ike's in the Blue packs, used type 1, 2 and 3 in that order.

[cpm9ball]

Thanks for the info, Larry!

 

Chris

[cladking]

Even gem Ikes are tough if you pay a lot of attention to strike. There is usually a lot of weakness on the periphery lettering or the eagle even with the mint set coins. Original mint set coins probably had an incidence of less than .1% as nice well struck gems when they were issues. This excludes the '77 and '78 sets since gems are more common in these. Over the years large percentages of the mint sets have been destroyed and many of the high end Ikes have been discovered in sets and selectively removed leaving a preponderance of substandard sets in regards to the Ikes. Probably about half of the surviving sets have been picked over so now you have to look at 2,000 mint set coins to find a nice gem. Among these gems choice and superb examples tend to be tough. The '76-D's, '77's, and '78's tend to be relatively easy in higher grades and are more often attractive.

 

Roll and bag gems do exist but in my experience usually have strike deficiencies. None of the regular issue Ikes is especially tough in unc except for the types. Most Ikes have degraded since they were made. Usually they are still in XF or better but most have light wear or corrosion. Tarnish is also a growing problem for all the remaining mint set coins.

[DC Dawg]

Mike, what is the difference between the '72, Type I, II & III? Isn't one of them supposed to have something to do with the Earth on the reverse? I have a lot of them in and/or from Mint Sets, and I would like to know how to tell the difference

 

The following is from the NGC Newsletter (Vol 5, Issue 4) For April 2006:

 

The Type 1 or low relief reverse type features the Earth with three islands falling to the right of Florida. In addition, the Earth is flat from 8 o’clock to 11 o’clock and the eagle’s breast feathers are raised and distinct.

 

The Type 3 or “Normal” reverse shows a higher relief than the Type 1. This change is attributed the use of a new more resilient die steel. The Type 3 can be distinguished by the islands falling directly below Florida, and the eagle’s breast feathers are smooth.

 

The Type 2 or “Proof” reverse has a completely different and unique appearance. The Earth has been flattened with little relief on North and South America. Instead of islands, incuse water lines hint at their appearance. Like the Type 3, the eagle’s feathers are smooth.

 

If you go to the newsletter, they have images.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Scott

[RWB]

In the 1970s I purchased a $1,000 bag of each Ike date/mint as they were released and searched them for the best quality coins. The result was finding no more than 40 of any date/mint that were premium pieces for strike and damage. Most bags yielded less than 20 nice specimens.

[jom]

If you are doing business strike Ikes the best way to learn is to go to a shop or show that has dealers who carry raw Ikes. Try to put together a raw set. While doing so you'll find out almost immediately which dates are hard to find. Once you go thru enough of them (you had better like the series or this will be a bit of a grind) you won't need any pop report to tell you which are hard to find. I did this about 14 years ago and it was obvious the 71P, 72P and 76P Type 1 were the most difficult to find. Strike and luster are a problem with this series the way I saw it....

 

But...like I said...you had better enjoy the series because most of the coins made are just hideously ugly (from a production quality stand point) and that is before you even consider the design itself...which takes an "aquired" taste.

 

jom

[just carl]

I don't know how to make those Link things but if you want to go to a web site where it is Specializing in High Grade Eisenhower Dollars it is jmscoin. Not even sure if it is .com or .net or whatever but the person that runs that web site knows Eisenhower coins. I've talked to him at coin shows and he has just about anything and everything in those coins and really knows them and the main thing is he is willing to discuss them with anyone, anytime. Try that web site.