Getting real tired of some of the members of the Universe!

[WoodenJefferson]

<<And the kool aid tag has been around for years..well before the first strike bruhaw. >>

 

You make it sound like I made up the origin of this based on the the First Strike issue...I mearly stated that it was starting to be used more and more often to denote the issue as it unfolded.

 

 

My statement:

 

Edit: The "Cool-Aid" logo was really revived ATS and reved-up during the "First-Strike" issue because it was thought that the TPG's used FS as only a marketing gimmick. "Hey Cool-Aid"

[MAULEMALL]

<<And the kool aid tag has been around for years..well before the first strike bruhaw. >>

 

You make it sound like I made up the origin of this based on the the First Strike issue...I mearly stated that it was starting to be used more and more often to denote the issue as it unfolded.

 

 

My statement:

 

Edit: The "Cool-Aid" logo was really revived ATS and reved-up during the "First-Strike" issue because it was thought that the TPG's used FS as only a marketing gimmick. "Hey Cool-Aid"

I'm sorry if you took it that way ,It wasn't my intent..Nor was it my intent to start any type of flames around the OP....I just thought His post odd after his post across the street.

[WoodenJefferson]

OK agreed on the Trade Mark...NP, MAULEMALL, also you should not sit on the fence and throw stones at both sides...when your not looking, someones gonna come along with a big stick and knock you off.

 

edit meaning OP on fence

[MikeKing]

I read both boards as well, And to be Honest when I read this statement, I was under the impression you were just another kool aider...

Heck look at Bust anyhting that NGC encapulates, I will pay the big money on PCGS over NGC anytime, in fact I just stay away from NGC unless the dealer that I buy from allows me to send the NGC holdered coin on a one day service to PCGS at my expense if it crosses I buy it if it doesn't I pass and return it., I realize of course there are some that are fine, I have one or two, but I sent them to experts and paid to have confirmation that they were ok for the grade on the holder. This is what a dumb newbe has to do to survive the coin game.

 

I don't understand why you (the OP) made this ridiculous statement ATS

 

Are you just trying to fit in there (see the definition of a lemming), or are you trying to win the approval of some of the watermelon head ego's ??

Not saying this to be disrespectful (really), but why make a statement like that--If you are a coin collector and not a plastic collector who cares what plastic is around the coin---you are buying the coin correct?

I have a lot of bust coinage in NGC holders as well as raw and in other companies plastic as well, and you know what------ I pay for what I think the coin is worth--I do not throw the seller a few extra bucks because of the logo on the plastic. The coin is my hobby, the plastic is just holding the piece I am collecting.

I personally think you owe NGC an apology for making that statement. I too am critical of the grades placed on some coins by all the TPG's and will always express that feeling when I see it, but to make a blanket statement like """ I flatly don't trust anything in a NGC holder period""" is just wrong.

Sorry to say this in public here, but your statement was also made in public for us all to read.

 

Well said JRocco

My sentiments exactly.

[MAULEMALL]

OK agreed on the Trade Mark...NP, MAULEMALL, also you should not sit on the fence and throw stones at both sides...when your not looking, someones gonna come along with a big stick and knock you off.

 

edit meaning OP on fence

Now I had to go and edit myself

[MikeInFL]

I thought this was the "nicer" side of the street?

[jom]

I thought this was the "nicer" side of the street?

 

Is it true that many "over there" are coming "over here" then this shouldn't be a shock, should it?

 

jom

[MAULEMALL]

I thought this was the "nicer" side of the street?

It most assuredly is...It's also the more honest...Everyone who has come over here has cried about free speech and censorship...I suggest that people understand that free speech doesn't equate to Free Ride..

 

People tend to take exception when you pee on thier floor and then try to convince them that it's raining...

Have a nice day

[MikeInFL]

I thought this was the "nicer" side of the street?

 

Is it true that many "over there" are coming "over here" then this shouldn't be a shock, should it?

 

jom

 

Jom,

 

No, it shouldn't be, but that's not what's happening in this thread.

 

What happened is a new member from ATS re-introduced himself, and the defender-of-all-that-is-NGC chastised him for an anti-NGC post ATS. A post that I agree with for the most part, and most people, not to mention market in general as evidenced with prices realized, would agree with too -- NGC lets more problem coins into their holders and their grading is looser than PCGS.

 

That being said, I believe Realone's blind-faith in PCGS is misguided, as they certainly have problems too. I also believe that his interpersonal communication skills could use a bit of improvement -- but who among us couldn't say the same. However, to bring up how he feels concerning PCGS versus NGC grading when his post as about the forums was misguided and divisive, regardless of Maulemal's intent or the intent of those who piled on after him.

 

I just find it rather hypocritical for some to protray this forum as "nicer" and "better" when much of the same derided behavior on the other forum is perpetuated here as well, and by those very same people who continuously claim that this forum is better -- thus my original comment.

 

Have a nice weekend...Mike

[MikeInFL]

I thought this was the "nicer" side of the street?

It most assuredly is...It's also the more honest...Everyone who has come over here has cried about free speech and censorship...I suggest that people understand that free speech doesn't equate to Free Ride..

 

People tend to take exception when you pee on thier floor and then try to convince them that it's raining...

Have a nice day

 

 

Patrick,

 

I must say it does not come as much of a surprise when your definion of "nice" or "honesty" or "free speech" includes posting Realone's thoughts on grading when his post was discussing forums.

 

That was neither "nice" nor "honest". It was taking his comments out of context and using them to make a point which did not logically follow. In short and my opinion, it was wrong.

 

Why not just try and offer your advice and experience and make this place a "nicer" one?...Mike

 

p.s. are you sure you don't need a hug?

[Denver Dave]

 

 

Man... This thread sure went down hill...

 

So he drank of the Kool-Aid, it's Christmas Man...!

[realone]

You can pile it on, I deserve responses and can take it. i believe i made my infamous opinion on the other side, why it showed up here i don't know. I am new yes, and I am insecure about what I am buying and addicted to buying it at the same time because I love the hobby. It is if my cart is before the horse, and I am trying to play catch up. Last year i purchased many NGC coins from reputable dealers and when I switched my collecting habits I learned through the unloading process from multiple and I mean multiple sources all reputable again that these were problem coins and I took a beating. I originally paid prices that weren't less than PCGS brands. I then also found out that no matter where I went a certain percentage would automatically be knocked off if it were in a NGC holder unless it was an exceptional coin. BTW I took zero beating on the PCGS coins, could be just a coincedence, I don't know, I am no expert that is for sure. I am just reacting to and learning the market. I hear all day long buy the coin not the holder, but for a newbe it is more complicated than that and out in the real world NGC takes a licking just for being in that holder.

 

As far as drinking only Kool-Aide, my intent is not to blindly trust any TPG, I can't trust my own instincts yet, and yet from my experience it appears that I can trust PCGS more than I can NGC by a large percentage, this is my experience albeit a new/short one (I have been collecting for 1 1/2 years). I still hear the saying buy the coin not the holder, and therefore I try to make sure I buy a problem free PCGS coin and if it is a good one I will pay good money for it, and hopefully in the end I will not regret it. So far whether the PCGS coins I bought were great or not at least none of them were problem coins at this point and I had it verified to be sure, and hopefully one can be really sure

 

I now own 3 exceptional NGC coins and 32 pcgs coins.I had to send both TPG's coins to experts to make sure all the coins were what they were supposed to be. I think from this learning experience and expense I am starting to learn what to look for now. Am I guilty of commiting a sin by doing this or am I just protecting myself. I don't want to dis NGC but at the same time I was responding to a thread and stated what I had experienced, and believe me i paid the price in $'s doing os to be sure or as sure as one can be

.

As to my opinions and what i can or cannot dish out, I stand by everything that I say, and believe in what I think and won't waiver, if you disagree with my post on the otherside having to do with dealer's honesty and the negotiating aspects of this hobby so be it. But my main contention was that it seems that some posters will take what one says and then twist the words for their own purposes and I am just tired of wasting everyone's time trying to make what I have said any clearer, no big deal really. I will lurk and learn and pm on the CU and if people don't like what I say here I will do the same on this forum. I only collect, I don't have a need to make any money or for that matter any friends, but I also don't enjoy *spoon* people off who don't deserve it either, so either way I will collect and learn from the two boards.

[MikeKing]

I think you should post more here and that your thoughts and ideas would be appreciated. TPGs, AT, NT, and kool aid, are all tender subjects on either board.

I think you have as much to offer as you are willing to learn and that you would like it here.

 

edited to add: Trusting yourself should be your ultimate goal and ultimate reward.

[Amanda]

I don't know what you mean by 'problem coins' as there are many ways a coin can have a problem.

 

But I do think that it would be more benificial to your future numismatic pursuits if you didn't look at said coins as 'problem coins in NGC plastic.' Rather, look at them as learning tools, to learn what it is that makes them a 'problem' in your eyes, and thus avoid similar problems in the future.

 

You said that you paid for expert opinions to make sure that your coins were 'problem free' and by doing so, you learned that some certified coins you had purchased had 'problems.' But it seems to me that before you got this other opinion, that you liked these coins. If you hadn't liked them, then you would not have bought them, right? I have bought (raw, as I don't really do slabs) problem coins that I later learned were unoriginal. I did not get discouraged, but learned the characteristics of the problem in order to avoid it in the future.

 

I have a suggestion for you: The PCGS Guide to Grading and Counterfeit Detection

 

I find it a very good starting point for reading about problems a coin can have, like artificial toning or evidence of cleaning or other things that make a coin less than ideal.

 

You can turn a seemingly bad situation into good with the right attitude!

 

-Amanda

[cpm9ball]

I don't think there is a collector anywhere who hasn't gotten burned at one time or another. You're right, though! Knowledge is the key. Since you are a collector and not necessarily driven by profits as all dealers are, there is one important aspect of your collecting habits that you must always bear in mind. Buy what you like! The fact that you were "taken to the cleaners" on some of the coins wasn't because they were bad coins. It was because the price that was bad. There was something that attracted you to them. Eye appeal, maybe? If you were spurred by the possibility of profits, then it only means that you need to do more research and studying. Whatever the circumstances, you have to hang in there and learn from your mistakes. NGC has their strong points just as PCGS has theirs. I have coins that have been overgraded, undergraded or misattributed, and I have seen examples of coins from all of the major TPG's that should never have been holdered in the first place.

 

Here is an example of one of my current blunders:

 

 

Granted, this is raw, and I won it on eBay. I just got it yesterday and when I opened it my heart sank. I guess I should have wondered why I won it for a little over $200. The pictures I've posted are nearly identical to those on eBay. What didn't show on the eBay photos, and doesn't show (too well) on the obverse of my photo is a staple scratch that runs from about 9:00 o'clock through Liberty's hair to the second "U" of PLURIBUS. And, on the reverse, the eBay photo did not show the gouge above IGWT at all. Should I have asked for additional photos from the seller? I guess that is a moot point now.

 

Anyway, my first reaction was to contact the seller, which I did, and ask to return the coin for a refund. I haven't received a reply as yet, but that doesn't surprise me. After all, it is the holiday season. I've had a little time to think about it, and maybe I was a little rash. Am I still perturbed that the seller took photos that (probably) disguised the problems? Yes! On the other hand, I don't have a '78-CC in my collection. Perhaps the seller will agree to a partial refund and I'll keep the coin. We'll see!

 

Chris

[bochiman]

Realone -

 

You keep saying "send to experts" for your slabbed coins, to make sure they agree with the slab grade.

 

I really wonder about that "wisdom" and why you would do that....

 

You do realize that the graders at NGC/PCGS are "expert" as well, right?

WHO are you sending the coins out to? Highly regarded specialists in the series? Or, just some dealer who says they are an expert?

 

I would trust Mark Feld for most series (he knows when he isn't an expert and will let you know that as well, so he won't try to fake it, but he has great knowledge across many series).

 

I would trust Russ on any Kennedy, in a heartbeat.

 

I would trust MrHalfDime on any halfdime.

 

There are others. Point, though, is that saying you are sending to "experts" really doesn't say anything.

 

If you have to have each coin OK'ed by someone else before you buy it, I think you will end up paying much more than you should for the coins (not just counting paying your "expert" for their OPINION).

 

Do you have a favorite series? Do you have a book on grading that series? Do you have a few in the slabbed grades you like (and agree with) both at the level and above/below for comparison? If not, you should so you get a good idea.

 

I am here (mostly lurking) and ATS and I see the same things on both sides. Too many people come here just wanting to lash out at people, or PCGS themselves, and it helps them to fit in here.

Your posts, there, seem very brash, and, as you stated, you are new to the boards AND to collecting.

 

Yes, you may have some good to give, but you sure are trying to push it on people.

Why not just learn and enjoy and give as you go along? Your "negotations" post was sadly funny. Take the art of negotiating, as one would do in business world, and apply to dealers in the coin biz. See how many well-priced, choice, coins you end up getting.

Try understanding the business before saying that people are doing things wrong and your way is right.

 

Good luck over here

[MikeInFL]

Realone,

 

I offer the following words of wisdom from Mohandas K. Ghandi:

 

It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err.

 

Remember you were "sure" the NGC coins were good enough to buy at one point, and you now see the err in your ways. We all go through a learning process, but realize that it is a long road and the nature of the coin game is that pitfalls abound. I think it's fair to say you've hit a few, as most of us have, but also realize that there are many yet to be found -- for all of us.

 

Take the helpful advice where you find it, and don't let those who would rather pot-shot than educate and hurt rather than help get the best of you.

 

Have a great weekend, and enjoy the Holidays!...Mike

[Houston Investor]

Never cared for the PCGS side. A number of them were out to bash anyone or anything, especially dealers. They were real shrewd in the way they would set a situation up and see who they could bash - then all gangup. Some of the most obnoxious ones got booted from there - guess where they ended up? Since I have come over here I never pay attention to whats going on over there. I am surprised PCGS did not just pull the plug on the whole message board over there. I did learn of a certain auction house from them where I have bought a number of nice coins significantly below bid, hopefully from some of the members who bashed me .

[MAULEMALL]

I thought this was the "nicer" side of the street?

It most assuredly is...It's also the more honest...Everyone who has come over here has cried about free speech and censorship...I suggest that people understand that free speech doesn't equate to Free Ride..

 

People tend to take exception when you pee on their floor and then try to convince them that it's raining...

Have a nice day

 

 

Patrick,

 

I must say it does not come as much of a surprise when your definion of "nice" or "honesty" or "free speech" includes posting Realone's thoughts on grading when his post was discussing forums.

 

That was neither "nice" nor "honest". It was taking his comments out of context and using them to make a point which did not logically follow. In short and my opinion, it was wrong.

 

Why not just try and offer your advice and experience and make this place a "nicer" one?...Mike

 

p.s. are you sure you don't need a hug?

Gosh and golly mike...Anyone with any memory of a month or so ago and the night of the flying edit knows you're full of and doesn't actually put much faith into what you and the other puppet have to say...As far as the post I Copied Verbatim,,,Well I'm sure you won't be able to relate as I didn't edit and then reedit my post,,,They are his words and his to defend...and for you to try to deflect the post is just another in a long list of reasons to "ignore" you..

 

Perhaps you missed this part of the post;

 

People tend to take exception when you pee on their floor and then try to convince them that it's raining...

 

I noticed that after continuously making an *spoon* of yourself you have been trying to rehabilitate your persona,,,Keep trying

 

 

Thanks for the offer of the hug but again it's just ANOTHER in a long list of disingenuous responses from (as another member stated)someone who hangs on to the coat tails of others who have some actual knowledge.

Have a nice day

[Denver Dave]

 

realone...

 

Any time you buy retail and try to un-load wholesale your going to take a beating, there in business to make money not friends. I have not seen many coins in either NGC or PCGS plastic that I would call "problem coins" ( i.e. cleaning, scratches, rim damage, artificially toned, fakes and the such ) Although I'm sure there are but it's the exception not the rule. The biggest argument between the two is grade, both are opinions and you know what they say about opinions. PCGS is not your friend, take this 20th Ann. ASE/BS they got going on. Take a Hot Ultra Modern Coin that averages 69 from the Mint and grade it so strictly you create a false market for your collectors. Think you took in in the shorts, what about the guy who paid 14K for a PCGS 20th Ann. ASE 70/70/69 set. I bring this up because it drives my point home, I defy any "expert" on the face of this earth to show me the difference between a NCG 70 and a PCGS 70 as far as the 20th Ann. ASE's go and why the PCGS is 7K higher. Sounds like to much Kool-Aid Before, During and After the office party...

 

As far as collecting goes give your self some credit, you know more then you think. Sounds like you make a down payment on your education all ready..."-) Look at the Coin with an open mind as raw before you Look at the Plastic, this goes with any of the top 5 TPG's as I have found gem's in all. Do your Own Research, Crawl before you Walk, collect what you like and go with your gut feelings. Are you going to make mistakes, sure but the bottom line is you will end up with a coin you love...

 

If your into Investing in high value coins and do not want to take the time or effort to learn the ropes then you might think about hiring a qualified broker to do your bidding, not the other way around...

 

Hope to see ya around the water cooler...

 

Merry Chritmas & Happy New Year to All...

[bochiman]

Question:

 

Why is a thread, with a title bashing the PCGS boards, in the US Coins portion instead of in "Numismatic Tangents"?

 

Seems it would be more appropriate there, right?

[MikeInFL]

I thought this was the "nicer" side of the street?

It most assuredly is...It's also the more honest...Everyone who has come over here has cried about free speech and censorship...I suggest that people understand that free speech doesn't equate to Free Ride..

 

People tend to take exception when you pee on their floor and then try to convince them that it's raining...

Have a nice day

 

 

Patrick,

 

I must say it does not come as much of a surprise when your definion of "nice" or "honesty" or "free speech" includes posting Realone's thoughts on grading when his post was discussing forums.

 

That was neither "nice" nor "honest". It was taking his comments out of context and using them to make a point which did not logically follow. In short and my opinion, it was wrong.

 

Why not just try and offer your advice and experience and make this place a "nicer" one?...Mike

 

p.s. are you sure you don't need a hug?

Gosh and golly mike...Anyone with any memory of a month or so ago and the night of the flying edit knows you're full of and doesn't actually put much faith into what you and the other puppet have to say...As far as the post I Copied Verbatim,,,Well I'm sure you won't be able to relate as I didn't edit and then reedit my post,,,They are his words and his to defend...and for you to try to deflect the post is just another in a long list of reasons to "ignore" you..

 

Perhaps you missed this part of the post;

 

People tend to take exception when you pee on their floor and then try to convince them that it's raining...

 

I noticed that after continuously making an *spoon* of yourself you have been trying to rehabilitate your persona,,,Keep trying

 

 

Thanks for the offer of the hug but again it's just ANOTHER in a long list of disingenuous responses from (as another member stated)someone who hangs on to the coat tails of others who have some actual knowledge.

Have a nice day

 

Patrick,

 

Ignoring your repeated attempts at berating my character, I'll simply ask you again:

 

Why do Realone's comments concerning PCGS and NGC grading have anything whatsoever to do with his feelings about the PCGS forums?

 

Admitting you were wrong to bring them up is a completely acceptable answer, but please don't respond again with a cliche that doesn't apply to the situation, or demean me because of my editing of a post months ago. It does not help your argument.

 

Thank you...Mike

 

p.s. You should read a bit more closely. I never offered you a hug. I simply asked you if you needed one. Please don't jump to conclusions.

[MAULEMALL]

I thought this was the "nicer" side of the street?

It most assuredly is...It's also the more honest...Everyone who has come over here has cried about free speech and censorship...I suggest that people understand that free speech doesn't equate to Free Ride..

 

People tend to take exception when you pee on their floor and then try to convince them that it's raining...

Have a nice day

 

 

Patrick,

 

I must say it does not come as much of a surprise when your definion of "nice" or "honesty" or "free speech" includes posting Realone's thoughts on grading when his post was discussing forums.

 

That was neither "nice" nor "honest". It was taking his comments out of context and using them to make a point which did not logically follow. In short and my opinion, it was wrong.

 

Why not just try and offer your advice and experience and make this place a "nicer" one?...Mike

 

p.s. are you sure you don't need a hug?

Gosh and golly mike...Anyone with any memory of a month or so ago and the night of the flying edit knows you're full of and doesn't actually put much faith into what you and the other puppet have to say...As far as the post I Copied Verbatim,,,Well I'm sure you won't be able to relate as I didn't edit and then reedit my post,,,They are his words and his to defend...and for you to try to deflect the post is just another in a long list of reasons to "ignore" you..

 

Perhaps you missed this part of the post;

 

People tend to take exception when you pee on their floor and then try to convince them that it's raining...

 

I noticed that after continuously making an *spoon* of yourself you have been trying to rehabilitate your persona,,,Keep trying

 

 

Thanks for the offer of the hug but again it's just ANOTHER in a long list of disingenuous responses from (as another member stated)someone who hangs on to the coat tails of others who have some actual knowledge.

Have a nice day

 

Patrick,

 

Ignoring your repeated attempts at berating my character, I'll simply ask you again:

 

Why do Realone's comments concerning PCGS and NGC grading have anything whatsoever to do with his feelings about the PCGS forums?

 

Admitting you were wrong to bring them up is a completely acceptable answer, but please don't respond again with a cliche that doesn't apply to the situation, or demean me because of my editing of a post months ago. It does not help your argument.

 

Thank you...Mike

 

p.s. You should read a bit more closely. I never offered you a hug. I simply asked you if you needed one. Please don't jump to conclusions.

mikeinfla,,You have displayed no character ,From your original posts slandering and accusing you made yourself out to be ignorant and then your edits ( to multiple Posts)to hide what you actually said here and across the street showed you to be a coward and someone who I personally would never trust .

 

Have a nice day

 

XXX's

[MikeKing]

Question:

 

Why is a thread, with a title bashing the PCGS boards, in the US Coins portion instead of in "Numismatic Tangents"?

 

Seems it would be more appropriate there, right?

 

it'll probably get moved if someone notifies a moderator.

[MikeInFL]

mikeinfla,,You have displayed no character ,From your original posts slandering and accusing you made yourself out to be ignorant and then your edits ( to multiple Posts)to hide what you actually said here and across the street showed you to be a coward and someone who I personally would never trust .

 

I'm not quite sure how editing the wording of a post in order to avoid being sued shows a lack of character, particularly if the person who I was talking about admitted their behavior, the post did not change in subject nor message, and nothing I said was untrue, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Since you again ignored my question, I'll repeat it and continue to repeat it until you answer it, or put you me on Ingore like your friend who doesn't like my questions because of the truth they expose:

 

Why do Realone's comments concerning PCGS and NGC grading have anything whatsoever to do with his feelings about the PCGS forums?

 

Just admit you were wrong for bringing it up, and I promise to never say another word about it.

 

Deal?

[MAULEMALL]

mikeinfla,,You have displayed no character ,From your original posts slandering and accusing you made yourself out to be ignorant and then your edits ( to multiple Posts)to hide what you actually said here and across the street showed you to be a coward and someone who I personally would never trust .

 

I'm not quite sure how editing the wording of a post in order to avoid being sued shows a lack of character, particularly if the person who I was talking about admitted their behavior, the post did not change in subject nor message, and nothing I said was untrue, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Sure...You were gonna get sued for telling the truth ..... ,,

 

The reason you edited your posts is because they were full of lies and false accusations ....(This is where you should take a hint on the no character and coward statements I made earlier)

Thanks for not offering a hug... Continuously rejecting your Physical advances was starting to embarrass me...

 

Have a nice day

[Cladiator]

Some of my favorite coins in my collection are "problem coins".

[jom]

 

No, it shouldn't be, but that's not what's happening in this thread.

 

What happened is a new member from ATS re-introduced himself, and the defender-of-all-that-is-NGC chastised him for an anti-NGC post ATS. A post that I agree with for the most part, and most people, not to mention market in general as evidenced with prices realized, would agree with too -- NGC lets more problem coins into their holders and their grading is looser than PCGS.

 

That being said, I believe Realone's blind-faith in PCGS is misguided, as they certainly have problems too. I also believe that his interpersonal communication skills could use a bit of improvement -- but who among us couldn't say the same. However, to bring up how he feels concerning PCGS versus NGC grading when his post as about the forums was misguided and divisive, regardless of Maulemal's intent or the intent of those who piled on after him.

 

I just find it rather hypocritical for some to protray this forum as "nicer" and "better" when much of the same derided behavior on the other forum is perpetuated here as well, and by those very same people who continuously claim that this forum is better -- thus my original comment.

 

Good post. I have a couple of things to add/agree/disagree with.

 

First of all about this message board. Boards aren't good or bad, it's obvously the people who post. If the same people are posting that brought down the PCGS board came over here then this board won't be any different. However, this board WAS "better" for a time since many of the posters here didn't bring it down to the PCGS level. In fact, it was the same at the PCGS board 4 years ago but things changed. I don't see any reason to believe the same thing won't happen here though.

 

As to the grading service comparason. I simply do not believe that NGC puts more "problem" coins in there holders. That is just not true.. Now, NGC may be more liberal on AT but PCGS might be more liberal on tooling or hairlining. Whatever the case they are pretty much the same.

 

As to the more "strict" grading: That is meaningless, IMO, since how strict you are is NOT indicative of how GOOD you are. It's how CONSISTANT with the grading scale you've chosen AND, believe it or not, the customer service. For a long time NGC had PCGS beat on both counts. Today, I'm pretty sure they win at customer service but I'm not sure of the consistancy anymore. NGC is close enough to PCGS though where the differences to me just don't matter overall. Now there are some series of coins one service does better than the other but it's MY job to figure that all out using MY experience. NOT blindingly except everything the TPG's tell me. The fact is that only real thing the TPG's give an experience collector who knows how to grade (at least within their area of expertise) is the authentication of the coin. Even then, if you are experienced enough you don't really need that either.

 

As to the newbie: He really should be looking at as many coins as possible and try to avoid the temptation to buy. Go to auction lot viewings and then sit at the sale or look at the realized prices and see if your grading equates to what the market demanded at the sale. Go to shows and ask questions about certain coins. Try to avoid being persuaded by the label. I don't know what else to tell him but he needs to look at as many coins as possible until his eyes fall out. It will save him 100s if not 1000s of dollars over time.

 

jom

[MikeInFL]

mikeinfla,,You have displayed no character ,From your original posts slandering and accusing you made yourself out to be ignorant and then your edits ( to multiple Posts)to hide what you actually said here and across the street showed you to be a coward and someone who I personally would never trust .

 

I'm not quite sure how editing the wording of a post in order to avoid being sued shows a lack of character, particularly if the person who I was talking about admitted their behavior, the post did not change in subject nor message, and nothing I said was untrue, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Sure...You were gonna get sued for telling the truth ..... ,,

 

The reason you edited your posts is because they were full of lies and false accusations ....(This is where you should take a hint on the no character and coward statements I made earlier)

Thanks for not offering a hug... Continuously rejecting your Physical advances was starting to embarrass me...

 

Have a nice day

 

If you don't believe me about the changes to the post, ask the local neighborhood Coin Physician to send you a copy of it. Unless he lied, he said he saved the post. Prove that I'm wrong. I challenge you. Are you up for the challenge, or would you rather continue to lie about it?

 

That being said, Why do Realone's comments concerning PCGS and NGC grading have anything whatsoever to do with his feelings about the PCGS forums?

 

Patrick, Remember the first step towards absolution is admitting your faults...Mike

[MikeInFL]

 

Good post. I have a couple of things to add/agree/disagree with.

 

First of all about this message board. Boards aren't good or bad, it's obvously the people who post. If the same people are posting that brought down the PCGS board came over here then this board won't be any different. However, this board WAS "better" for a time since many of the posters here didn't bring it down to the PCGS level. In fact, it was the same at the PCGS board 4 years ago but things changed. I don't see any reason to believe the same thing won't happen here though.

 

As to the grading service comparason. I simply do not believe that NGC puts more "problem" coins in there holders. That is just not true.. Now, NGC may be more liberal on AT but PCGS might be more liberal on tooling or hairlining. Whatever the case they are pretty much the same.

 

As to the more "strict" grading: That is meaningless, IMO, since how strict you are is NOT indicative of how GOOD you are. It's how CONSISTANT with the grading scale you've chosen AND, believe it or not, the customer service. For a long time NGC had PCGS beat on both counts. Today, I'm pretty sure they win at customer service but I'm not sure of the consistancy anymore. NGC is close enough to PCGS though where the differences to me just don't matter overall. Now there are some series of coins one service does better than the other but it's MY job to figure that all out using MY experience. NOT blindingly except everything the TPG's tell me. The fact is that only real thing the TPG's give an experience collector who knows how to grade (at least within their area of expertise) is the authentication of the coin. Even then, if you are experienced enough you don't really need that either.

 

As to the newbie: He really should be looking at as many coins as possible and try to avoid the temptation to buy. Go to auction lot viewings and then sit at the sale or look at the realized prices and see if your grading equates to what the market demanded at the sale. Go to shows and ask questions about certain coins. Try to avoid being persuaded by the label. I don't know what else to tell him but he needs to look at as many coins as possible until his eyes fall out. It will save him 100s if not 1000s of dollars over time.

 

jom

 

Jom,

 

Thanks for sharing your observations and the well thought out post. I appreciate it.

 

On PCGS -vs- NGC grading....Perhaps it is because our collecting interest is different, or we are going to have to agree to disagree on this topic. My observations within the coins I follow (type coins and large cents) is as suggested above -- that NGC grades far more problem and AT coins than PCGS and they are also looser in their grading. Moreso for large cents than type coins, but there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever on either one of these points. This says nothing of the loosening that occurs at NGC when a big collection comes rolling in to be sold at Heritage -- simply take a look at the Reiver collection and come to your own conclusions. Your point on consistency is also a good one, but I really find no difference between the two services when it comes to consistency within the coins that I follow. Similarly, your point on self-reliance not TPG-reliance is worth taking to heart.

 

On your advice to Realone...I could not agree more. If I were giving him advice, I would tell him to stop buying coins completely for a while until he becomes more familiar with grading and problem coins, and seek the advice of an experienced mentor. Only buy from dealers that stand behind their coins and offer a 90+% buyback. Specialization in a series would also pay dividends this early in his numismatic career. In the meantime, your advice to view as many coins in-hand as possible is sound, and I would add (from all that I've heard and read) that a trip to the ANA for a few courses in grading and counterfeit/problem detection would also pay dividends.

 

Take care...Mike