I put this question on the dark side, but I'm curious about US collector comment

[Architecht]

I had a question about ancient coins and toning.

[James_OldeTowne]

So there's always alot of debate about original toning versus artificial toning among U.S. coin collectors, and many discussions about whether blast white coin A is more or less attractive than toned coin B.

 

Often the debate centers around wildly colored coins, etc. etc..

 

Anyway, I found myself thinking that you would definitely NOT want an "original skin" ancient if you found one. Essentially it would be so "toned" it wouldn't be attractive, I think... right?

 

So this opens a kind of interesting topic. What's the most attractive state to buy an ancient in? Conserved to perfection with all trace of corrosion removed, or some kind of re-toned state? Or is my assumption wrong, and the most highly valued coins might be super-well preserved 2000 year old coins that toned and have "original skin" as dug up out of the ground but which is attractive? Is it possible for there to be attractive 2000 year old skins on coins?

 

...and more interestingly... whatever the answers are here... they will eventually apply to U.S. coins as the years go on, right?

 

Heck no! For me, the more ancient the toning, the better! I wouldn't care if the coin was so dark as to be practically black. The opportunity to view 2000 years of history on a coin is something I wouldn't take for granted.

[TJ'S Coins]

A problem with many ancient coins is that the verdigris accumulated on the coin if it has been buried, etc., can be so severe as to render the coin virtually impossible to examine or identify until much of it is removed. Ancients didn't have plastic slabs, albums with sliding plastic windows, kointains, airtites, Whitman or capital holders to keep their coins in a high state of preservation. Without a high degree of conservation, many ancients would not be worth collecting. You would have a glob of dirt, mud, whatever, surrounding a metal disc that is supposed to be a coin.

[BillJones]

My experience with ancient coins has been little more than “dabbling.” I’ve owned a few decent ones over the years, but have never gotten serious about them. I have considered getting more involved in them, and have purchased a few books about the Roman Emperors, but I’ve never taken that collection off the ground.

 

Having said that, I’ve read that many ancient coins have been recovered from grave sites and other places out of the ground. As such many of them are so crusty that some form of restoration is pretty much mandatory. Among ancient collectors, cleaned and restored is more or less expected and is not viewed as a detriment, so long as the pieces are not polished. To me originality is “wonderful” only if the results end up being a decent thing to look at. If a coin is so crusty that you can barely see the emperor or god’s portrait and can’t read the legends, there is nothing wrong with fixing it.

 

Therefore, I’ll say yes, “curating” is fine for ancient coins, and quite often desirable.

 

As for U.S. coins, I think that the grading services are entirely too hard to very old copper coins that have been “restored,” and way too easy on gold and silver pieces. I’ve got some very pretty copper coins that can’t be graded because of “altered surfaces.” Yet I have some silver pieces that have been worked on just as much, and they are in holders.

 

As for gold coins I’m very unhappy with the way many of the early U.S. gold coins look that are on the market. Gold is a “noble metal” that is largely inert to chemical attack. Therefore working on it with chemical should be the exception NOT the rule. Yet today that is just of the opposite of what is happening, and many early U.S. gold coins are being ruined forever in my opinion.

[JRocco]

Here is a crown from 1743 that to my eye exhibits nice old toning---it has been put in a slab since I took these raw pics

[MrEureka-migration]

I don't mind when gunk (e.g., dirt, PVC or dried Roman blood) is removed from the surface of a coin. Just don't remove any of the coin itself (with acids or whatever), don't move any metal (with a wire brush or whatever) and don't add anything to the surface (like a fake green patina). I want my coins to look like they stepped out of a time capsule, not like they just left some jerk's basement toning factory.

[JRocco]

Hey Architecht,

I didn't realize that you were only talking ancients--didn't mean to throw a relative modern coin into the thread

[Newmismatist]

See my detailed answer to your original thread - it is actually the "short" version as there is much that can be said about the various methods of cleaning which can and will affect the final result.