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Let's discuss the "Third Side"

Started by Amanda,

74 posts in this topic

Amanda

Amanda

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posted before. Now that I've seen some of the other photos, I wish I had spent more time on the edge of this 1809 xxxx, alas, it is now entombed in plastic tonofbricks.gif

1506493-edge.JPG

 

That sounds very interesting, I have never heard of this variety before. Could you please tell us more about it?

 

Thanks. laugh.gif

 

Also, thanks for explaining about railroad rims, Conder. 893applaud-thumb.gif

 

-Amanda

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GAB

GAB

Posted
Posted

Great thread thumbsup2.gif

I have managed to acquire 20+ varieties of 1836 Capped Bust halves over the past year, and did a little study (of the ones that I could see because they are not slabbed)

I found it interesting that they are randomly Obverse and Reverse "up" - which I guess makes sense because the edges were coined before the coin was struck (duh!!)

I have only 1, an O-112 that has NO lettering on the edge. I guess some of them must have slipped by the edge lettering step? (This by the way is E58 on the very last page of my Overton book.) I have not checked all of my edges to see how many of each E variety

is represented in 1836 - but that sounds like a good thing to do this winter !!

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okbustchaser

okbustchaser

Posted
Posted

GAB,

 

You have a real winner with your unlettered O-112. Most blank edge capped bust halves are easily worth an 8 X premium over what the normal coin would go for, and I have seen them go for 10 to 12 X.

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Cladiator

Cladiator

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Posted

Supplies: 1 Coin, 1 Flashlight

 

1tv7.jpg

 

 

 

 

Close up of coin and reflector cone

 

2os5.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Distance shot of coin in reflector cone

 

3sk5.jpg

 

 

 

 

Uncropped final image

 

4nd6.jpg

 

 

 

 

Final image with excess mirror cropped out and a black background

 

5cn0.jpg

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GAB

GAB

Posted
Posted

Just had to try out the old flashlight cone trick:

It looks like with a little practice, it will definitely work! grin.gif893applaud-thumb.gif

1836 O-106 (with LE)

LE_LEnot.jpg

1836 O-112 (no LE)

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GAB

GAB

Posted
Posted
GAB,

 

You have a real winner with your unlettered O-112. Most blank edge capped bust halves are easily worth an 8 X premium over what the normal coin would go for, and I have seen them go for 10 to 12 X.

 

OKB,

This is good to know. I don't know if I (personally) will ever sell it, but one of my kids might!

So far I haven't been able to let myself sell any (CBH's) even though I have built up a few duplicates playing the upgrade game. They ALL seem to have a character of their own!

 

Amanda,

WARNING - don't get to close to your Bust Half !!!!

The fever is very contagious insane.gif

 

(And they like to multiply rapidly) 893whatthe.gif

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GAB

GAB

Posted
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Cladiator is certainly correct.

I need to work on my cropping. I can't figure out how to do a circle?

 

 

From your flashlight reflector image, it looks like I can see lettering on the edge of your '36. Are you certain that there is no lettering there?

 

The O-112 definitely has no edge lettering (the bottom picture.) The problem is with the

photo - as the REV lettering also gets reflected. If you look at the TOP picture closely,

you can see the EDGE lettering right around the coin (between the REV reflection and the REV itself.) The bottom picture has nothing in thisthin area around the coin.

 

I will figure this out, and do a better picture as soon as I do. confused.gif

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MikeKing

MikeKing

Posted
Posted

these photos are incredible. something new to drive me further insane. I love it.

 

Amanda, the 1809 Bust Halves had either a plain edge, a IIII edge or a XXXX edge where the edge would read:

 

"FIFTY CENTS OR HALF A DOLLAR"), the XXX edge (FIFTY CENTS OR HALF DOLLAR XXXXXX FIFTY CENTS OR HALF DOLLAR) and the III edge (FIFTY CENTS OR IIIII HALF DOLLAR IIIII FIFTY CENTS OR).

 

as I think you already know, this was imprinted on the edge of the planchet by a castaing maching (did I spell that right?) before the coin was put in the press. I think Souders explains that he doesn't know why these different edges were done that year (if my memory serves me correctly).

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RWB

RWB

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Posted

The San Francisco Mint was making Mexican and other foreign coins with recessed edge lettering in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

 

There is a Coin World article from last summer on the 1885 edge lettering experimental Morgan dollars. Charles Barber discusses several ways to letter the edges of coins.

 

The 1907 $20 were struck using two different mechanisms for the 3-part collars: a “toggle” collar and a “cone” or “English” collar. The current mint plans to go back to the 3-part toggle collar mechanism for raised edge lettering. These are discussed in "Renaissance of American Coinage 1905-1908."

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Amanda

Amanda

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Thanks for explaining, Mike, that sounds like quite a mystery. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Mr. Burdette, I always appreciate the facts you share, thank you very much! 893applaud-thumb.gif

 

-Amanda

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WoodenJefferson

WoodenJefferson

Posted
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Cladiator is certainly correct.

I need to work on my cropping. I can't figure out how to do a circle?

 

 

From your flashlight reflector image, it looks like I can see lettering on the edge of your '36. Are you certain that there is no lettering there?

 

The O-112 definitely has no edge lettering (the bottom picture.) The problem is with the

photo - as the REV lettering also gets reflected. If you look at the TOP picture closely,

you can see the EDGE lettering right around the coin (between the REV reflection and the REV itself.) The bottom picture has nothing in thisthin area around the coin.

 

I will figure this out, and do a better picture as soon as I do. confused.gif

 

GAB I noticed in the lower pic of the 1836 O-112 (No Lettering) that the denticles appear to be located very near the rim of that half...could this edge have been filed yarns ago thus removing the incused letter's?

 

Just wondering...then again you just might have a error coin where the lettering was omitted? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

Diameter of the 1836 50 C. should be 32.5 mm, weight 13.48 grams

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Hoot

Hoot

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Posted

Superb thread and a joy to read. Some great photos and experimentation.

 

I have but one photo of the edge of one of my coins - my 1794 dollar - pillar dollar, that is! Intricate and rather beautiful edge pattern, of which I'd be curious about the manufacture process. A good-old American circulation piece. laugh.gif

 

1536623-1794-MOFMMexico8RealXF45NGCedgedevice303-1.JPG

 

Hoot

1536623-1794-MOFMMexico8RealXF45NGCedgedevice303-1.JPG.475a62e9952c85028fb4b6ecb067d46c.JPG

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GAB

GAB

Posted
Posted
GAB I noticed in the lower pic of the 1836 O-112 (No Lettering) that the denticles appear to be located very near the rim of that half...could this edge have been filed yarns ago thus removing the incused letter's?

 

Just wondering...then again you just might have a error coin where the lettering was omitted?

Diameter of the 1836 50 C. should be 32.5 mm, weight 13.48 grams

 

It could have been filed down, now that you mention it. I can't see any evidence on the edge, but it does seem to be SLIGHTLY smaller in diameter that the O-106 w/ LE - when I stack and stand the 2 up together ??. (I don't have a decent ruler or a scale...)

 

The O-106, might not have been the best choice for comparing denticles, since it has a beaded edge reverse.

 

Here is my latest photo attempt. (getting closer!)

 

LE_LEnot-1.jpg

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SlumLord98-migration

SlumLord98-migration

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All the known plain edge halves have a broadstruck look to them, like the planchet "spread out" from the force of the strike, and show unstruck detail outside the dentils in the "spread out" area. All except one, an 1819 O.107 (from Russ Logan's collection, now owned by a neighbor) that is as sharp as a normal half. This coin, though, shows a distinct "belly line" around the center of the edge. This belly line is from where the planchet tore away from the strip of silver in the planchet cutter. If this is a true plain edge, and not filed down, the belly line must be visible.

 

Does this coin show it?

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GAB

GAB

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I sure don't see any belly line.

I would bet on some creative filing/sanding etc - to go along with the cleaning(s) the

coin has had! Christo_pull_hair.gif

 

Hoot,

That is an awesome edge "lettered" coin. It appears to be a very deep incuse method?

I wonder if it was done the same way as the LE Capped Bust Halves. It looks like that coin would be a lot more obvious if someone tried to file away the edged portion !!

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JRocco

JRocco

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Here is a cool gripped like edge on an 1814 Merchant Token

grippededge.jpg

Hey Amanda- I have a cool edge on an 1809 CBH. I just picked it up today from the box and will take some pics as soon as my camera's battery charges smile.gif

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Hoot

Hoot

Posted
Posted
I wonder if it was done the same way as the LE Capped Bust Halves. It looks like that coin would be a lot more obvious if someone tried to file away the edged portion !!

 

GAB - Yes, the edge devices are very deeply incuse. I've wondered the same as you. The design is very regular all the way around with no obvious breaks. It would have been quite easy to detect tampering from filing.

 

Hoot

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Amanda

Amanda

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That's really neat, John! grin.gif

 

(FIFTY CENTS OR IIIII HALF DOLLAR IIIII FIFTY CENTS OR)

 

It's this one, right?

 

Thanks for sharing! 893applaud-thumb.gif

 

Also, that Merchant token has a cool edge too. laugh.gif

 

Also, my mom was allowed to go home today! laugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.giflaugh.gif

 

-Amanda

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JRocco

JRocco

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Posted

Hey Amanda--That is great news for sure 893applaud-thumb.gif

Hope she is feeling well.

 

I think this one looks more like

(FIFTY ------- CENTS ------ OR XXXXXX HALF A DOLLAR llllll FIFTY -----CENTS)

or a really botched attempt at something between OR and HALF nothing like the llllll between DOLLAR and FIFTY, and horizontal looking lines between FIFTY and CENTS, and CENTS and OR

 

Hey---this is confusing insane.gif

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MikeKing

MikeKing

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JRocco, incredible pics. I have to save this post on my computer. Great info and great shots. Wish I spent more time on my 1809 before having it graded. And no, Cladiator, I am too much of a scaredy cat to crack it out!!! no no no no 893naughty-thumb.gif893naughty-thumb.gif

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