US Currency Violates Law

[astrostu]

A federal judge has ruled that US currency (paper bills) violates the law because denominations are not distinguishable by blind people. The link where I saw this story is at CNN Story.

 

Assuming the ruling is upheld, this could be the end of modern bills since the physical design must be changed ... and it could finally get them to get rid of the $1 bill as a easy first quick-fix.

 

What do y'all think?

[WinstonWare]

Sounds like they have 1 more thing to train those seeing eye dogs. Really, I would be surprised if anything comes of this.

[LuvToCollect]

I sympathize with the blind and I really am not upset about acommidations being made for them.

What I dont like is the fact here is another person, who is called judge, legislating from the bench.

[Zoins]

Someone across the street mentioned that the Euro bills come in different sizes with foils in different locations which are two things that help the visually impaired. Doesn't seem like a hard thing to accommodate. I think getting rid of the $1 bill remains a separate issue.

[MorganMan]

Look. I am sympathetic to the handicapped. Heck, I cannot read without glasses!

 

BUT. Soon, if these radical Judges keep going, you will be breaking the law if you do not hire a blind person to drive a school bus....

 

 

I mean, we need to get real in this country....

 

 

MM

[Zoins]

if these radical Judges keep going, you will be breaking the law if you do not hire a blind person to drive a school bus....

I believe the correct term is Activist Judges

[DC Dawg]

I posted the following under the "Paper Money" section last night:

US District Court for the District of Columbia Judge James Robertson has ruled that the Department of the Treasury is violating Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act by not designing currency so that it is distinguishable to the visually impaired. In a suit filed by the American Council of the Blind (ACB), Judge Robertson wrote, “It can no longer be successfully argued that a blind person has ‘meaningful access’ to currency if she cannot accurately identify paper money without assistance.” more...

Unlike coinage laws, the standards of paper currency is set by the Secretary of the Treasury. Thus, there is no requirements for congress to intervene regarding design and size changes to the currency. In fact, there are no laws that standardize paper currency. The only law that exists for currency is under Title 31, § 5114. Engraving and printing currency and security documents, paragraph (b) states "United States currency has the inscription “In God We Trust” in a place the Secretary decides is appropriate. Only the portrait of a deceased individual may appear on United States currency and securities. The name of the individual shall be inscribed below the portrait." (31 U.S.C. §5144)

 

A call to the Bureau of Engraving and Printing's (BEP) information line confirmed that except for what is written in the law, all specifications for the nation's currency is under the direct control of the Secretary of the Treasury. Unless this is changed by congress, the responsibility falls onto Secretary Henry Paulson as to whether to stop printing the $1 note.

 

Interestingly, the BEP has been losing business over the last few years. Two of their main sources of income, printing checks and stamps, have been outsourced. BEP allocates almost 50-percent of its resources to printing $1 notes. Since this is a significant portion of their business, I do not see the Secretary stopping the BEP from printing $1 notes. It will probably take an act of congress to stop the pressing of $1 notes.

 

Scott

[Zoins]

Even if the ultimate decision on the $1 bill lies with the Secretary of the Treasury, politics and trading favors is how Washington works.

 

The interesting thing is that providing services to the disabled is in law passed by Congress.

[MunkyMan95]

DareDevil was blind... He kept all his bills in separate containers and then folded them different ways in his wallet. Worked for him. But then again, he was a super hero.

[Zoins]

DareDevil was blind... He kept all his bills in separate containers and then folded them different ways in his wallet. Worked for him. But then again, he was a super hero.

How did he know what people gave him? What if people gave him $1 bills folded as $20s?

[DC Dawg]

Look. I am sympathetic to the handicapped. Heck, I cannot read without glasses!

 

BUT. Soon, if these radical Judges keep going, you will be breaking the law if you do not hire a blind person to drive a school bus....

 

 

I mean, we need to get real in this country....

 

 

MM

There is a reason the folks at the Collector's Society closed the politics board. Maybe we need to keep these political views out of the discussions!

 

Scott

[MunkyMan95]

HE WAS A SUPERHERO! If they cheated him, he'd take off their head.

[TomB]

HE WAS A SUPERHERO! If they cheated him, he'd take off their head.

Chad does make a good point.

[HalfMad-migration]

Someone across the street mentioned that the Euro bills come in different sizes with foils in different locations which are two things that help the visually impaired. Doesn't seem like a hard thing to accommodate. I think getting rid of the $1 bill remains a separate issue.

 

Many countries have issued currency in different sizes, usually small paper notes for small denominations and larger paper for bigger denoms. A few countries come to mind: the entire Euro zone, India, China, Australia, Hong Kong and I know there are many others. The notes are not only of different sizes, they are also different colors.

 

There is no mixing one denom from another.

 

Australia's currency is made of polymer!

 

130 X 60mm

 

 

 

 

158 X 65mm

 

 

Rich

[EZ_E]

Holland has had raised portions on the bill for decades to distinguish the note's denomination for the blind.

[shirohniichan]

Will the "ring test" for silver coins be outlawed since the hearing impaired can't use it to distinguish silver vs. silver-plated coins?

[pendragon1998]

This is yet another example of special interest groups getting judges to pass laws. In this case, we're taking about changing the entire currency of a country with around 260 million people to suit the needs of around 2-3 million household-based blind & visually impaired people who are of working age, defined as 18 through 69 years old. linkie

 

That's around 1 percent of the country, according to my off-the-cuff number crunching. Now, compare that 1% of people who are inconvenienced to the other 99% of the country who will now have to make a number of expensive changes to accomodate these individuals. I don't see blind people starving to death because they can't find the right bill to pay for food at McDonalds. I don't see them shrugging when it comes time to pay their taxes (or we'd have had this law passed 70 years ago). I'm sorry they're blind, really I am. Heck, I'm almost legally blind myself without glasses (I saw 20:400 five years ago) but I don't go around expecting everyone to write bigger so I don't have to wear glasses. I compensate for my (minor) disability and take responsibility for myself rather than sue the government for not accomodating me.

 

Consider what will have to be done if we changed the currency to different sized bills. Just off the top of my head:

Vending machines would have to be completely redone to accept new bills.

Cash drawers would likely have to be replaced in every store to accomodate the new bills

Massive PR campaigns would have to be waged to explain the change to inDuhviduals.

BEP machinery will have to be replaced or modified and research done to print new bills.

 

Those are just a few of the changes that would have to be undertaken if the currency is changed. These and other changes would result in probably hundreds of millions of dollars in expenses - ALL SO WE CAN AVOID INCONVENIENCING 1% OF THE POPULATION. It's not even as though they're not able (given with some difficulty) to use the currency we've already got. They've been doing fine for over two centuries.

 

Heck, while we're at it, we should prevent all the Mexican illegal immigrants from being denied meaningful access to money. We'll just print one side of every dollar bill in English and the other side in Spanish. There's more Mexicans than blind people in America after all!

 

[okbustchaser]

This is yet another example of special interest groups getting judges to pass laws. In this case, we're taking about changing the entire currency of a country with around 260 million people to suit the needs of around 2-3 million household-based blind & visually impaired people who are of working age, defined as 18 through 69 years old. linkie

 

 

This is NOT a case of judical legislation. It is NOT a case of some radical judge deciding that the 99 percent (to use your figures) of the U.S. public must be inconvenienced to accomodate the few.

 

It is merely a case of a federal judge deciding that the U.S. goverment must obey its OWN law--one that was passed by Congress and signed by the President 16 years ago.

 

If you have a problem with the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 take it up with your congressman not a judge who is simply doing his job.

[astrostu]

Wow. I did not mean to open a political can of worms. I don't care - and neither does anyone else here - what you think of "activist judges" or "legislating from the bench" in the context of what this story means for coins and bills.

 

I only meant for this to be a discussion on what you think may happen as a result of this ruling, if it is upheld, to our currency (and yeah, sorry for not just posting to the thread in the paper money forum).

[pendragon1998]

This is NOT a case of judical legislation. It is NOT a case of some radical judge deciding that the 99 percent (to use your figures) of the U.S. public must be inconvenienced to accomodate the few.

 

It is merely a case of a federal judge deciding that the U.S. goverment must obey its OWN law--one that was passed by Congress and signed by the President 16 years ago.

 

From the CNN article linked above:

The judge wrote that the current configuration of paper money violates the Rehabilitation Act's guarantee of "meaningful access."

 

"It can no longer be successfully argued that a blind person has 'meaningful access' to currency if she cannot accurately identify paper money without assistance," Robertson wrote in his ruling.

 

He further ruled that finding a solution to the problem would not be an "undue burden" on the government and ordered the Treasury Department to begin working on a solution within 30 days.

 

Actually, the judge was interpreting a law, not "deciding that the US government must obey its own law." The law did not say that currency must be of different sizes, textures, or whatnot. It guarantees "meaningful access" to currency. The judge formed an opinion that "meaningful access" includes being able to distinguish different denominations of currency by touch. I'm not saying the judge was out of line to offer an opinion (or "judgement"). I do, however, (1) disagree with the judgement; (2) think that increasingly, judges in this country are doing the job of lawmakers; (3) and think that special interest groups of all persuasions, including The American Council for the Blind, have attained levels of influence over this country that does not benefit the majority as a whole.

 

I'm sure you'll disagree, but that's my opinion.

 

...Back to coin discussions...

[pendragon1998]

Wow. I did not mean to open a political can of worms. I don't care - and neither does anyone else here - what you think of "activist judges" or "legislating from the bench" in the context of what this story means for coins and bills.

 

I only meant for this to be a discussion on what you think may happen as a result of this ruling, if it is upheld, to our currency (and yeah, sorry for not just posting to the thread in the paper money forum).

 

Suit yourself. Next time stick to safer, less polarizing topics such as AT vs. NT and colorized state quarters. As for discussion of what may happen as a result of this ruling being upheld, I did address that in my first post.

[MAULEMALL]

This is NOT a case of judical legislation. It is NOT a case of some radical judge deciding that the 99 percent (to use your figures) of the U.S. public must be inconvenienced to accomodate the few.

 

It is merely a case of a federal judge deciding that the U.S. goverment must obey its OWN law--one that was passed by Congress and signed by the President 16 years ago.

 

From the CNN article linked above:

The judge wrote that the current configuration of paper money violates the Rehabilitation Act's guarantee of "meaningful access."

 

"It can no longer be successfully argued that a blind person has 'meaningful access' to currency if she cannot accurately identify paper money without assistance," Robertson wrote in his ruling.

 

He further ruled that finding a solution to the problem would not be an "undue burden" on the government and ordered the Treasury Department to begin working on a solution within 30 days.

 

Actually, the judge was interpreting a law, not "deciding that the US government must obey its own law." The law did not say that currency must be of different sizes, textures, or whatnot. It guarantees "meaningful access" to currency. The judge formed an opinion that "meaningful access" includes being able to distinguish different denominations of currency by touch. I'm not saying the judge was out of line to offer an opinion (or "judgement"). I do, however, (1) disagree with the judgement; (2) think that increasingly, judges in this country are doing the job of lawmakers; (3) and think that special interest groups of all persuasions, including The American Council for the Blind, have attained levels of influence over this country that does not benefit the majority as a whole.

 

I'm sure you'll disagree, but that's my opinion.

 

...Back to coin discussions...

I think your opinion is correct..And I have to agree.

[Zoins]

The judge formed an opinion that "meaningful access" includes being able to distinguish different denominations of currency by touch.

If you disagree with this, what do you think would qualify as meaningful access for the blind?

think that special interest groups of all persuasions, including The American Council for the Blind, have attained levels of influence over this country that does not benefit the majority as a whole.

I don't think the American Council for the Blind's goal is to benefit the population as a whole. I also don't think they've attained that much influence compared to lots of commercial companies and industries, say farmers and the sugar industry (wonder why all our food is full of corn syrup?).

[pendragon1998]

The judge formed an opinion that "meaningful access" includes being able to distinguish different denominations of currency by touch.

If you disagree with this, what do you think would qualify as meaningful access for the blind?

 

I really don't want to be drawn into a debate, but since you asked me directly...I think that they already have meaningful access to currency. All people in a nation of 260 million aren't going to have the same abilities in all regards as everyone else. My leanings are toward a model of personal responsibility, rather than relying on the government to take care of us.

 

This discussion is rapidly progressing beyond anything coin/currency related and into the realm of political philosophy, which, while interesting, is beyond the scope of this thread.

 

think that special interest groups of all persuasions, including The American Council for the Blind, have attained levels of influence over this country that does not benefit the majority as a whole.

I don't think the American Council for the Blind's goal is to benefit the population as a whole. I'm not really sure they've attained that much influence compared to lots of other commercial companies.

 

I agree with your first statement, though I'm not certain we take the same thing away from it. I did note that I'm generally against the power special interest groups have gained (for lobbying) in general.

[MorganMan]

US Currency Violates Law? Heck, there is not a one of us here who does not violate some law EVERY day. I would challenge anyone to try to go through a single day that you actually leave your home, and do not violate some kind of law.

 

Wait, you probably have some outdated prescription or one that belongs to someone else, or your car does not meet emissions, or you are putting illegal things into your trash can.........yada yada yada.............no need to even leave home.

 

We have become a nation of too many laws, and even more too many greedy lawyers. (Ok, not good grammar)

 

I think you get the point.

 

 

MM

[Zoins]

US Currency Violates Law? Heck, there is not a one of us here who does not violate some law EVERY day. I would challenge anyone to try to go through a single day that you actually leave your home, and do not violate some kind of law.

Most of us don't set Federal policy that breaks Federal laws

[Zoins]

I don't see this as the judge's fault since he's just highlighting an inconsistency between the laws and policies of the land. The way around this is to write your congressmen and tell them to repeal the Americans with Disabilities Act. Hey if prohibition, which was a Constitutional amendment, could be repealed, this should be that much easier

[DC Dawg]

 

 

Scott

[cpm9ball]

Someone across the street mentioned that the Euro bills come in different sizes with foils in different locations which are two things that help the visually impaired. Doesn't seem like a hard thing to accommodate. I think getting rid of the $1 bill remains a separate issue.

 

Many countries have issued currency in different sizes, usually small paper notes for small denominations and larger paper for bigger denoms. A few countries come to mind: the entire Euro zone, India, China, Australia, Hong Kong and I know there are many others. The notes are not only of different sizes, they are also different colors.

 

There is no mixing one denom from another.

 

Australia's currency is made of polymer!

 

130 X 60mm

 

 

 

 

158 X 65mm

 

 

Rich

 

Why don't they just make bills that are scented? $100 - Orange blossoms; $50 - Watermelon; $20 - Fresh Coffee; $10 - Pineapple; $5 - Roast Chicken; $2 - Freshly Cut Lumber; $1 - Skunk. As a security measure, if a counterfeiter tried to alter the scent to take advantage of the blind or visually-impaired, the scent of the note would automatically change to Raw Sewage .

 

Chris

[pendragon1998]

Chris, I like your idea a lot! But what about the smelling-impaired? Seriously, though, what do you think your wallet would start to smell like after you carried a couple hundred small bills over a month or two? Probably a lot like my garbage can. Maybe in November we can have Thanksgiving-themed scented money: Roasted Turkey, stuffing, cranberry, beer...