Silver Britannias - what's the skinny?

[pendragon1998]

I've been thinking about getting into collecting the silver 2 pound Britannia coins from the UK. I like the designs quite a bit, particularly their habit of changing them up every 2 years. Can anyone give me a little background on how people collect these? I'm not clear on what finishes are offered. I've seen proofs, regular uncirculateds, but I think I've also seen some reverse proofs and satin finish coins offered?

 

What're the average price ranges for these coins? Any killer dates that are going to bankrupt me? I'm interested in potentially collecting only the proofs from each year. I haven't seen any MS coins that got me too excited. Is there a very competitive (i.e. high priced) market for these coins? Resale potential a few years down the road? Should I go slabbed vs. buying in the original packaging? Does the - what - royal mint or whatever offer them for sale online like the US's silver eagles? Are there any good websites by collectors of these coins out there?

 

Give me the skinny on these beautiful coins! Thanks.

[gmarguli]

The proofs seem to be minted in fairly small quantities, but they are available. None that I have seen have been really expensive. Most seem to be $30-$80.

 

I believe the reverse proofs are really mint state. I've been selling the uncirculated examples (NGC MS69) recently and have several "reverse proofs" that are in MS slabs.

[Zoins]

Issue price seems to be really expensive relative to modern bullion from other countries.

 

2006 Uncirc (100K mintage) issue price 14.95 GBP = $28.21

 

2006 Proof (2750 mintage) issue price 47.50 GBP = US $89.67

 

You may want to check eBay for past issues to see how they hold their value. Are you sure the design changes every couple of years? The proof page seems to imply the design has been the same since 1987. Any Brittania in years pics?

[DC Dawg]

The Royal Mint has been producing the 1 ounce silver coins since 1997, so catching up should not be too much of a problem--or financial burden. With the exception of the 1997, you can fill your set with uncirculated Britannias for $25-$65. Proof coins (obviously) sell for a premium. The 2006 proof Britannia sells for $75 from the Royal Mint.

 

Minting is limited to 100,000 uncirculated coins and 2,750 for the proof. These are the same numbers that have been used since 1997. Proof coins from previous years have been selling in the $150-$300 range. Since 1997 was the first year of issue, they tend to cost more on the secondary markets... if you can find them. I know someone who is having a problem trying to find a 1997 uncirculated coin.

 

The Royal Mint distributes proof coins only in special display cases. Those that have been slabbed, were removed from the display cases. Uncirculated coins are shipped in rolls to dealers (similar to the roles used for American Silver Eagles) or on a souvenir card via the Royal Mint. Sometimes, you can find these coins from a dealer who may be willing to sell them for $20 without the card. The dealers do not get the card from the Royal Mint. I have not seen the card in the United States, but I did find one in a coin shop in Canada that a dealer bought from a customer.

 

When I started to put together a set of Britannias, I noticed that none of the dealers I met who sold the coin had the cards. After asking the Royal Mint (they have an office in Minnesota and my calls have been answered by a very pleasant woman with a British accent), I was told that only the Royal Mint sells the coins with those cards. She also told me that the cards do not command a premium in Great Brittan. I have found the cards at eBay's UK site—but you have to be careful and ask the sellers if they will ship to the US.

 

Reverse designs of the Britannia have been repeated every other year, but the design was not conceived until 1998. While the obverse has been the standard effigy of Queen Elizabeth II, the reverses have been as follows:

• 1997 Features a figure of Britannia driving a chariot, in the manner of Boudicca. The obverse uses the official third portrait of the Queen.
• 1998 uses a traditional design with Britannia facing the sea, holding a trident with a shield emblazoned with the Union Jack in defense of her land. This design was used on the florins under Edward VII. This also begins the use of the more mature, fourth portrait of the Queen.
• 1999 introduced the Chariot Design that places Britannia in her traditional pose on a chariot.
• 2000 returns the Standing Britannia design.
• 2001 Britannia is shown standing, accompanied by a lion, similar to the Una and the Lion reverse used on the very rare 1839 £5 gold coins. This coin was a reverse proof strike.
• 2002 uses the uses the Standing Britannia design.
• 2003 introduces the "Helmet Design" that uses a profile view with Britannia wearing a traditional war helmet with waves running through the coin depicting Great Brittan's dominance of the seas. The uncirculated coin does not have a proof-like finish. The entire coin is shiny with no frosted areas.
• 2004 uses the Standing Britannia design.
• 2005 Features a seated figure of Britannia, similar to that used on halfpennies and farthings from 1672, both of which reflects the personification of Britannia on Roman coins of Hadrian. The seated Britannia design was the inspiration for the seated liberty design used in the early 19th century by Christian Gobrecht.
• 2006 sees the return of the Standing Britannia design.

 

As for storing these coins, my rule is "whatever you like!" Silver Britannias are 40mm in diameter and will fit in any holder that will accommodate the American Silver Eagle, which is also 40mm in diameter. I use AirTite holder with black ring inserts. I have an AirTite storage box that comes with display cards for the coins. But you can get blank albums from Dansco and Whitman with 40mm openings. Otherwise, all TPG will grade and encapsulate Britannias. I prefer not to have them graded.

 

That is all of the information I have on these coins. The information about the designs were saved from previous years. I do not know of any Britannia-specific web site. If I do a Google search, I get a bunch of eBay listings and some dealer sites who are selling the coin.

 

Good luck on your search to find the Britannias. I think they are great looking coins and am proud of my set! I hope this helps in your search.

 

Scott

[gmarguli]

Uncirculated coins are shipped in rolls to dealers (similar to the roles used for American Silver Eagles)

 

The 2003 I purchased were shipped in rolls. The 1999-2005 were in sheets. This leads directly to a difference in quality. I submitted a bulk deal of them to NGC and I received very few of the 2003 in MS69 compared to the other dates. Overall, few made MS69 for any date, but 2003 was brutal.

[pendragon1998]

Thanks for all the great information above!

 

How's the condition on those coins that are sent out in the plastic mint sleeves? I'm debating on whether I want to go certified on these or buy them raw in their packaging and move them to Air-Tites. I think that mint condition is going to be more within my price range.

[gmarguli]

I'd guess that the average one is MS67. The ones in the rolls are much worse, probably MS64.

 

The ones in the rolls had a lot of nicks and scuffs on the high points. They also hazed up a little. The ones in the sheets were haze free and most only had a couple of marks, but rarely anything major.

 

If you decide on certified, let me know. If you want raw, contact JamminJ. He purchased all the raw ones from me and probably has some left.

[Zoins]

MS69 compared to the other dates. Overall, few made MS69 for any date, but 2003 was brutal.

What's the pop for PR/MS70s for all the years? Any idea on the 70 pops for the proofs?

[michael_s-migration]

I bookmarked the following site a while back. It hasn't been updated recently, so it only covers Britannias up to 2003.

 

http://pages.cthome.net/hemenway/Splash.html

 

There's a post on the other forum about the 2007 design:

 

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=550695

[Zoins]

Nice pics. Now I'm thinking I'd prefer it if they simply used Britannia on all the commonwealth coins instead of the queen!

[gmarguli]

MS69 compared to the other dates. Overall, few made MS69 for any date, but 2003 was brutal.

What's the pop for PR/MS70s for all the years? Any idea on the 70 pops for the proofs?

 

Not sure it is accurate, but the NGC Census shows on 1 PF70 and no MS70s. They show 69 for all dates in MS69. I question if this is accurate as I made 61 on my bulk submission.

[DC Dawg]

For those folks here, I copied the image so you can see the 2007 image.

I like it!!

 

Scott

[Zoins]

I copied the image so you can see the 2007 image.

Sweet. This looks like a collection that's better viewed in an album or display box as opposed to individual slabs, much like China's pandas.

[DC Dawg]

Sweet. This looks like a collection that's better viewed in an album or display box as opposed to individual slabs, much like China's pandas.

Not to start another "argument" with you I prefer raw coins over slabbed, especially for a series of coins that have multiple designs, like the Britannia and the Pandas you mention. Since both coins are 40mm in diameter, I use AirTite holders for the coins one of their storage boxes where the holder is inserted in a card. I like it for now... I may move to an album later.

 

Scott

[Zoins]

Sweet. This looks like a collection that's better viewed in an album or display box as opposed to individual slabs, much like China's pandas.

Not to start another "argument" with you I prefer raw coins over slabbed, especially for a series of coins that have multiple designs, like the Britannia and the Pandas you mention. Since both coins are 40mm in diameter, I use AirTite holders for the coins one of their storage boxes where the holder is inserted in a card. I like it for now... I may move to an album later.

This sounds like a much more enjoyable way to view a large series with multiple types. We agree!

[zrlevin]

I prefer raw coins over slabbed

 

I knew I liked you!

[Zoins]

Minting is limited to 100,000 uncirculated coins and 2,750 for the proof. These are the same numbers that have been used since 1997.

According to this website the proofs had the following mintages (not complete):

 

1997: 20,000

1998: 20,000

2003: 5,000

2005: 2,500

 

Are they mistaken?

[DC Dawg]

Minting is limited to 100,000 uncirculated coins and 2,750 for the proof. These are the same numbers that have been used since 1997.

According to this website the proofs had the following mintages (not complete):

 

1997: 20,000

1998: 20,000

2003: 5,000

2005: 2,500

 

Are they mistaken?

Huh... I should have did a search for their site. They have some nice information.

 

I would trust their numbers since the numbers I have came from someone else and not my own research. It looks like the folks at that website have better information. It looks like I will have to catch up on some reading. THANKS!

 

Scott

[michael_s-migration]

Those figures refer to maximum possible mintages. This archived web page lists the actual mintage figures:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050402143752/www.aethelred.net/0006.htm

 

At the bottom of that page, the author cites SPINK, which I gather is the equivalent of the Red Book in the UK.

[Zoins]

Those figures refer to maximum possible mintages. This archived web page lists the actual mintage figures:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050402143752/www.aethelred.net/0006.htm

 

At the bottom of that page, the author cites SPINK, which I gather is the equivalent of the Red Book in the UK.

Great find! Seems like the SPINK id refers to a type since the years that have the shared reverse also share a SPINK id.

[DC Dawg]

Those figures refer to maximum possible mintages. This archived web page lists the actual mintage figures:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20050402143752/www.aethelred.net/0006.htm

 

At the bottom of that page, the author cites SPINK, which I gather is the equivalent of the Red Book in the UK.

Great find! Seems like the SPINK id refers to a type since the years that have the shared reverse also share a SPINK id.

The Spink ID is either a sales or auction lot number. Spink and Sons is a rare coins and stamps business based in London. They were purchases from Christies in 2001 (I did not find when Christies purchased them) and have been running independently since. You can find them at www.spink.com. But the page about Britannias does not exist on their website.

 

Scott

[TomB]

One of the bookmarked sites shown is for our own member, cosmicdebris.

[pendragon1998]

Is it just me, or are very few Britannias ever slabbed? The only ones I've seen on eBay were gmarguli's.

 

Also, can anyone tell me how to decipher the number on a ngc britannia slab?

 

eg: 1544231-003

 

Thanks!

[gmarguli]

Is it just me, or are very few Britannias ever slabbed? The only ones I've seen on eBay were gmarguli's.

 

Also, can anyone tell me how to decipher the number on a ngc britannia slab? eg: 1544231-003

 

Yes, very few have been slabbed. When looking at the pop reports, I believe there were 67 in MS69. I made 61 of those on a bulk submission. Someone who contacted me told me they'd been searching for one, but never saw any before mine.

 

The insert number of 1544231-003 is made up of the invoice number and coin number. 1544231 is the invoice number (this is assigned by NGC since it is a bulk submission). -003 indicates it was the 3rd coin on that invoice.

[pendragon1998]

Ah, cool. Thanks Greg

[Zoins]

Is it only worth slabbing moderns when there's a collector segment that will drive up the prices of the 70s (e.g. ASEs) or when authentication is desired (e.g. Chinese pandas)? It seems like most darkside collectors simply don't care about conditional rarity the way lightsiders do. Or even the same collectors when collecting darkside vs lightside coins.

[pendragon1998]

Hey, where do you find the census reports for Britannias at NGC, anyway? I can't seem to locate them.

[gmarguli]

Census

[pendragon1998]

Oh, I was clicking on 2P under Great Britain moderns, but I should have clicked on S2P

 

Thanks again!

[pendragon1998]

Can someone tell me the expected date for the Royal Mint to start offering the 2007 MS coins? Will they be discontinuing the 2006's at year's end?