6 Ancient Coins pls help ID

[Paratrooper]

Some ancients that I picked up a few years back. Have no idea what they are, any help IDing would be appreciated.

[Paratrooper]

Next:

[Paratrooper]

#3

[Paratrooper]

#4

[Paratrooper]

#5

[Paratrooper]

#6

[the_Thing ®]

Way out of my area, but I can say the first two are suppose to be greek, 300 bc or so, but authenticity in question. Number 3 appears to be Roman Republic. Number 4 Roman, for sure, most likely republic. Number 5, ain't never seen anything like it. The crescent moon below the dude's head makes me think Islamic. JamminJ and others can tell you about number 6. I'll send out the images to try and get you exact attributions.

[Paratrooper]

Excellent, much appreciated!

[the_Thing ®]

I'll have you definite answers. Might be tonight, but no later than tomorrow afternoon. There are some great mailing lists out there with experts on every issue, and they are always happy to help.

[the_Thing ®]

Info I received....

 

Coin 1 purports to be an Athenian tetradrachm, but without in-hand examination - or at least an accurate weight - all I can say is that I don't like the look of it and would strongly suspect on the basis of the photo that it might not be genuine.

 

Coin 2 is a tetradrachm of Demetrios II from his 1st reign, 162-150 B.C. and is similar to SG 7015 - this one I was feeling less certain about authenticity on the basis of the look of the obverse than I was after seeing the reverse - generally, I feel it's probably genuine on the basis of the photos.

 

Coin 3 is a billon tetradrachm of Caracalla from Antioch, I believe - I don't have a reference from which to give you a specific number on this, but it is generally similar to SGI 2652, with a more youthful portrait.

 

Coin 4 is an antoninianus of Salonina, RIC V, i 67 "Mint of Asia" c. 255-6 A.D

 

Coin 5 from Mosul and is of the Lu’lu’id dynasty. This short lived dynasty was started by Badr al-Din Lu’lu when he overthrew the Zengid dynasty in 631AH/1234AD. He was originally a slave to Arslanshah I of Mosul. This coin is listed as in Spengler and Sayles book on Turkoman Figural Bronze coins as number 71 and in Stephen Album’s checklist of Islamic coins as number 1874.2. The obverse shows a crowned female Turkish figure holding a large crescent. The reverse is a Arabic legend in the Kufic -script, containing the Kalima on the second and third lines, the name of the Caliph on the top, fourth and fifth lines. Lu’lu’s titles are in the legend that surrounds this central legend.

[Paratrooper]

Very interested in coin #5, I have a feeling that it might be authentic. I bought it from a merchant in Iraq....while I was stationed in Mosul of all places! I appreciate all the help you have provided in this quest of mine.

 

Is there any service that authenticates ancients? I'd be very interested in having #5 authenticated.

[the_Thing ®]

ICG would be your best shot. If you want to spend the money, this would be the best way and get a full detailed attribution...

 

http://www.davidrsear.com/certification.html

 

But with that being said, all of the e-mails I received (they all pretty much said the same thing, I just posted the best one), no one expressed any doubts what so ever that #5 is authentic, so I wouldn't be concerned with its authenticy. All seem to be authentic, except #1, which is likely a cast forgery.

[Paratrooper]

Thanks Thing! 1 out of 5 being a forgery isn't bad odds (I surmise from the other threads I've read here). Now if I could just trade these for some Paratrooper cover GA comics. About a year or so ago I was tempted to get into coin collecting. Even bought a few WWII era coinage from Nazi Germany. But I just couldn't get into it as I did with War comics. Although, there is something to be said about owning something before the birth of Christ.

[the_Thing ®]

I think #2 is your most valuable. You might search ebay for sold pieces or you can research sold coins at www.cngcoins.com Very nice coins, and the piece you got in Iraq, what a cool story you can tell now.

[the_Thing ®]

A bit more info that came in on coin 5...

 

(1229 / 1230 AD) on the date

And minted at the al Mawsil mint

[the_Thing ®]

But I just couldn't get into it as I did with War comics

 

How about war coins? Many of the roman issues during the 1st - 4th century depict scenes of Roman soldiers spearing their enemies, dragging prisoners of war through the streets, charging chariots etc. Many different kinds, and some nice examples can be found for as little as $15.00. Then you have ships of war, many different scenes showing different types of galleys. The greeks had some really nice coins with galleys.

[the_Thing ®]

 

This shows Emperor Probus on horseback galloping, spearing the enemy whose shield lies beneath his horse.

[the_Thing ®]

Here is a nice war galley. Mark Antony issued this coin....

 

[Paratrooper]

Now you are getting me interested......are all those coins affordable in that condition? If so I just might start buying/researching the history behind those. I figure those war coins might be in abundance seeing as how most emporors in those times had to mint a bunch just to pay their armies. I'll get back to you once I've had some free time to look into some of these coins. If you have any advice as to where to start (i.e. the cheapest era) I'd appreciate it.

[the_Thing ®]

The first coin is listed at $166.00. Nice coin, plus its silver. The galley coin was expensive, just because its Mark Antony. Ebay would be a good place to start. Here is a quick search in the ancient coin catagory using the key word "spearing"

 

http://outside-affiliatelinksnotallowed.com/y3v2rg

 

You might try "soldier" "shield" "prisoner" too.

 

It also shows you how cheap this area of coin collecting can be. You seldom have to worry about these kind (roman 1st - 4th century) being faked. Another good place, were all dealers are vetted and you don't have to worry about authenticity is www.vcoins.com You can go to their search engine and type in keywords like "chariot" "soldier" or any other term or item of war from that time period. If I were you, I'd start off with the Roman bronze coins, like those on ebay. If you get really intersted in it, you can move into the Roman silver denarius coins and the silver Greek coins (about 300 BC). The Greek coins are true works of art. You can go to www.cngcoins.com and research sold coins by keywords. CNG usually deals in the higher end coins. You won't find too many $15.00 coins on there.

[the_Thing ®]

Some nice cheap examples at vcoins.com

 

web page

 

 

Very nice coin with good patina for $20.00

 

web page

 

I prefer coins that have nice patinas on them, and not the harshly cleaned coins.

[the_Thing ®]

Now here is a coin very popular with ancient collectors. They were actually minted by a military mint traveling with Caesar while he was on the warpath. The elephant trampling the serpent represents Caesar defeating his enemy. This coin sold for $695.00, but worn, good examples can be found sometimes at around $100.00

 

[the_Thing ®]

Here is a $15.00 coin showing a soldier with a captive

 

web page

 

 

And this coin has a nice provenance...

 

Constantius II, AE Centenionalis, 348-350, Second Group, First Series, Thessalonica, Officina 4 - RIC VIII, 117

 

Constantius II, AE Centenionalis, 348-350, Second Group, First Series, Thessalonica, Officina 4

D N CONSTAN_TIVS P F AVG

Pearl-diademed, draped, cuirassed bust left, globe in right hand

FEL TEMP REPAR_ATIO

Helmeted soldier advancing right, head left, leading captive with right hand from hut beneath tree, spear in left hand pointing downward between soldier and captive

TESD in exergue

21mm x 22mm, 3.83g

RIC VIII, 117

Ex Vel Garnett Collection

[the_Thing ®]

Ok, thats it for me tonight. These ancient "war" coins are extremely interesting, historic and affordable. Hell, after looking around for some to show you, it makes me want to get started in a war series. If you do want to start collecting them, I'll list some cheap but good reference material for you later.

[the_Thing ®]

OK, one more. I wanted to show you some of the Greek coins. Here is one with a chariot. This coin sold for about $4000.00, because its a rare issue, but you can find nice coins in this condition for $300.00 and fair condition cheaper.

 

[MunkyMan95]

Here is a $15.00 coin showing a soldier with a captive

 

web page

 

 

And this coin has a nice provenance...

 

Constantius II, AE Centenionalis, 348-350, Second Group, First Series, Thessalonica, Officina 4 - RIC VIII, 117

 

Constantius II, AE Centenionalis, 348-350, Second Group, First Series, Thessalonica, Officina 4

D N CONSTAN_TIVS P F AVG

Pearl-diademed, draped, cuirassed bust left, globe in right hand

FEL TEMP REPAR_ATIO

Helmeted soldier advancing right, head left, leading captive with right hand from hut beneath tree, spear in left hand pointing downward between soldier and captive

TESD in exergue

21mm x 22mm, 3.83g

RIC VIII, 117

Ex Vel Garnett Collection

 

I have that coin! Got it in the same lot with the wax seal. Cool!

[Paratrooper]

Hmm, most likely I'll start collecting the cheap ones first. I'll need some reference material because most of those descriptive words you used, like patina, provenance...unsure what they mean. I'll also need to learn how to spot a fake or polished. I was reading the other threads and they mentioned the drop test to test if the coin is silver or not.

 

Would there happen to be one book out there that focus' strictly on war coins?

[the_Thing ®]

Let me do some checking to see if any material is available for strictly that them. I don't think there is. You most likely have the best luck with reference material on Roman bronze from that era, that would cover them. I'll see what I can find, but I usually recommend one of Sear's books. Real quick....

 

An important factor to most ancient collectors is if the coin has been cleaned or it has a patina. Cleaning removes the patina. There are different degrees to this, some, most, have to have at least a slight brushing to remove dirt, others soak the coins to completely remove the patina, and you are left with a shiney bronze/copper coin. I prefer coins lightly cleaned (just to identify w/o chemicals) or no cleaning. Patina's with ancients have been described as "earthen with red highlights" or "desert patina" Here is a coin from my collection

 

 

It would be considered having a "dark green patina with earthen highlights".

 

Here is a coin that has been harshly cleaned and is showing signs of "bronze disease" since the patina was removed.

 

 

I would consider this coin nice. Lightly cleaned with an aged bronze and sandy patina.

 

 

A harshly cleaned coin that was darkened by the cleaning process (the kind I don't like)

 

 

A nice original patina (kind I like)

 

 

 

Its really all up to ones personal opinion. Many collectors see no harm or damage done in completely removing the patina down to the original bare metal. I, for one, insist on a nice looking original patina. It usually adds a premium to a coin's value amoung those who collect/deal them. I think of a nice patina as "nature's toning". If you ever watch Antiques Roadshow, you know that cleaning/refinishing old furniture kills the value by at least in half. Same way I feel about coins.

 

As for provenance , it simply means the history of the coin. With coins, it usually means it was in a "famous" or important collector's collection. It usually adds value to a coin. That first coin of mine would be considered provenanced, from the "JP Fontanille Collection". An authority/author on the issue. Some coins have provenance from museums. Many ancients you'll see for sale say "Ex-CNG". CNG is the thought by many to be the premier, high end dealer of quality ancients, so its listed on the coins provenance. Ancients are one of the few coins that can have a notable provenance and only cost $15.00. I also own several "plate coins", coins which have been featured in books/reference material. With U.S. coins from famous collections, people pay mucho money over what the normal list cost would be. Well, thats about it. I'll let ya know on a good reference (you are looking at around $35.00 or so).