Going over Dad's collection...

[dakra]

Hello everyone and thank you for your kind words and condolenses. My Dad was burried on Tuesday with full military honors. The Flag drapped on his casket, Two Marines folded the flag, presented it to my sister and they played Taps. For such a sad day, I felt very proud.

 

Wednesday night, I brought his coins home with me. I have decided to give his Silver Bullion to all of his kids (7) and all of his Grandchildren (13). I'm going to place them in airtights and present them to everyone... probably this Sunday.

 

In Dad's safe....

2 Morgan Dollars (1879-S around AU58? and 1890-0 in fine condition.

1 1922 Peace Dollar

25 Walking Liberty Halves from 1935-1946

70 Franklyn Halves 1951-1963

50 Washington Quarters 1941-1964

30 JFK's 1964-1969

70 Roosevelt Dimes 1947-1964

40 Mercury Dimes

1 Barber Dime 1913

1 Barber Quarter 1911

1 V Nickel 1899

A few no date Standing Liberties

5 no date buffalo

2 buffalo 1925 and 1936

a Bicentennial Quarter, Half and Dollar

close to 200 Wheat Pennies.

a few NYC subway, CT Transit and PA Transit tokens.

 

I believe most of the coins were found in circulation but he has many in great condition. Out of all the coins I went through, I only found 10 I needed for my collection although I would like to take one of each date/mint mark of the Franklin's and Walking Liberties.

 

[start Dirty Laundry] You see, one of my sisters thinks he has a fortune in coins and there must be a million dollar coin in his collection. [End Dirty Laundry]

 

Seriously, I want to keep all the coins but I have had a feeling that my siblings feel it is worth something and they want some proceeds from the "sale" of the coins. I have estimated the value around $450 and am going to my dealer tomorrow to have him assess the value which I think will be lower than what I valued it at. Personally, I want to keep the whole collection but I know I'm going to have to pull teeth to "negotiate" with my siblings.

 

Going through his collection, one coin at a time, was one of the best feelings I have had as a coin collector. Jotting down every single coin was a pain and so was entering all the coins in on the computer The Walking Liberties really blew my mind as I thought they were all Franklin's... it was a very nice surprise.

 

Some of the Silver Bullion appears to have started to tone (in celophane wrappers) and one or two of the Franklin's had a small amount of rainbow toning. I dipped one of the Silver Bullion coins to see if the toning would come off but the toning did not come off... makes me wonder if it is something other than toning. hmm?!?!

 

Thought, Comments appreciated.

 

-Dave

 

[GDJMSP]

dakra -

 

I had a close friend not long ago who went through the same experience you are now. His siblings were absolutely positive there was a fortune in the coins. Now my friend was not a collector - he knew less than nothing. So he asked me for help.

 

It was a very large collection - not a single slab in the bunch. There were complete multiple sets of every denomination in albums. It was obvious the sets were seperated by quality. And the keys - they were all there - every one. The guy had 3 '16-D Mercs, 2 '41/42 Mercs - 4 '09-S VDBs - all the Walkers - all the Buffs - the list goes on like that. And he had roll upon roll of BU everything. There were over 200 rolls of BU cents alone.

 

Needless to say - I spent months ( in my spare time of which there is little ) cataloguing the collection. But the siblings grew restless. They wanted their $$$$ NOW !! So my friend took the entire collection to a dealer - and then to another dealer. In both cases they offered him face for the entire collection. I had warned him in advance so he did not sell. Instead he got an offer in writing and took that to his siblings.

 

They were disappointed to say the least. But my friend was so fed up with their acting like jerks and not being willing to be patient that he offered them what the dealers did. He paid them face value for the collection. They were happy - they got their money.

 

And my friend - he got the collection. I finally finished cataloguing it. My estimate put the value well over 100k. He still has the collection.

 

Now this scenario may not work for you - or you may not be willing to do this. That's for you to decide. But it sure worked for him.

[dakra]

GDJMSP,

I went over the collection pretty well, looking for key dates and I really didn't go over the grades of the coins but there are a few nice ones. The important thing to me is that they were my dads and I'd like to have some of them in my collection and perhaps keep some Walking Liberties, Franklin's and maybe some Mercs so I can start a collection of those in the future. To me, it's not about the money, it's what's important to me.

 

When it comes to my Dad's collection of Plates, Coins are Birds... no one wants anyone to get the more valuable one. I suggested putting a number on the bottom of every plate and bird and have someone draw numbers. Personally, the Plates and Birds have no value to me so I have told my brothers and sisters that they can have what they want.

 

As your friend did, I am bringing it to a dealer and having him price it, I'm doing this so I can let them know what a dealer would offer and if they still want to sell it, I will make them an offer based on what the dealer offered.

 

Money brings out the worst in people. I saw it with my wife's family and I hate to say it, I'm seeing it with my family....and it's only been a week!

 

-Dave

 

 

 

[TomB]

I would suggest that you bring one or more of your siblings with you to one or more local dealers and let them be with you when the collection is appraised so that they can see for themselves the approximate value of the collection. At that time, they might be willing to let you buy them out of the collection so that it can stay intact.

 

I know I shouldn't comment on the post by GDJMSP, but, I am not going to let good sense stand in the way of a post.

 

I had a close friend not long ago who went through the same experience you are now. His siblings were absolutely positive there was a fortune in the coins. Now my friend was not a collector - he knew less than nothing. So he asked me for help.

 

It was a very large collection - not a single slab in the bunch. There were complete multiple sets of every denomination in albums. It was obvious the sets were seperated by quality. And the keys - they were all there - every one. The guy had 3 '16-D Mercs, 2 '41/42 Mercs - 4 '09-S VDBs - all the Walkers - all the Buffs - the list goes on like that. And he had roll upon roll of BU everything. There were over 200 rolls of BU cents alone.

 

Needless to say - I spent months ( in my spare time of which there is little ) cataloguing the collection. But the siblings grew restless. They wanted their $$$$ NOW !! So my friend took the entire collection to a dealer - and then to another dealer. In both cases they offered him face for the entire collection. I had warned him in advance so he did not sell. Instead he got an offer in writing and took that to his siblings.

 

They were disappointed to say the least. But my friend was so fed up with their acting like jerks and not being willing to be patient that he offered them what the dealers did. He paid them face value for the collection. They were happy - they got their money.

 

And my friend - he got the collection. I finally finished cataloguing it. My estimate put the value well over 100k. He still has the collection.

 

Now this scenario may not work for you - or you may not be willing to do this. That's for you to decide. But it sure worked for him.

No doubt there are many details left out from the scenario as described, however, I can imagine that your friend's siblings might not have trusted you since you had their father's collection for months. That is in no way a slam on you, I don't know you, that is just an observation that if they thought the collection was worth money and then that collection was in someone's possession that they did not know, then they could have been concerned.

 

It seems, however, that their concern was well founded as your friend simply swindled his siblings out of whatever their share of $100,000 would have been. I find this stunning that you are not appalled by this act. I just can't get it out of my mind how low your friend stooped and that if someone pointed out how a dealer consummated this deal that that dealer would be assailed without mercy and some would say he/she should be sued. It seems to me that your friend had the fiduciary responsibility to get the market value for the set yet he let an amateur value it and then was mad when his siblings might have been rightly annoyed. I can't get over it.

[andy007]

I think I got the same take on the story about the 100K collection also. It didn't sink in till I finished, but once I read the post, I didn't feel like that was very admirable or fair for your friend to treat his own blood like that, regardless. It has no impact in my opinion whether or not what some dealer offered him for the coins, he was well aware of the true value of them, and deliberately went out of his way it seems to deceive them. How would you feel if your collection were dispersed in such a manner once you pass away? Sure the relatives might be happy with anything they can get, and they might just be in it for the money, but a fair compromise for your will executor/executrix is to be upfront, disclose the appraised value, and note the effort, cost, time, etc...in research and come to a compromise, even at a significant discount to the actual collection's value is better than face value. That would disgust me if that happened to my collection. Just rolls off the tongue a little too easy IMO, as Tom stated.

[GDJMSP]

You are correct - there are details left out. Like that I only accepted portions of the collection at a time to be in my possession so I would not be responsible for the entire collection. Like that he told them that I was trying to do an accurate appraisal of the collection. But because of the limited time I could spend doing it and the size of the collection - it was going to take a while.

 

He also told them that in my opinion it was valuable collection. That the part of the collection that I had catalogued to date was worth in excess of $30,000 - approx 1/3 of the coins. He also told them that I said the offer from the dealers was a joke. They did not care. They did not wish to wait. It was their opinion that if the collection had any true value - the dealers would have made a better offer. That I was the one in error - that I did not know what I was doing. And that if he thought that he would end up with more than the dealer offered when it was said & done - that he was fool. They just wanted the money in their hands - now.

 

You are of course entitled to your own opinions. But my opinion is that all the siblings could think about was getting the money as fast as they could. They did - and they were happy.

[dakra]

I'm kind of mixed... to me, it's not about the money. There could always be a few expensive plates and "birds" but I'm not thinking about it that way. I'm not looking to sell my Dad's collection and I hope that whoever takes a plate or a "bird" is not looking to profit from it. Everyone seems interested in the birds or the plates, my only interest is with the coins but... that is the problem. I'm the only coin collector, I'm an honest person and that's why I went over the coins. There are no key dates, no mint errors, nothing of too much value. I value the coins at about $450 (if you were to purchase them from a dealer) I think a dealer will offer $250 for them.

 

I guess I'm kind of blown away that my family wants money for the coins. They have had no problem when it comes to value for the plates and the birds... and the plates and birds are probably worth more combined then the coins. What I am going to do is say "Listen, If I bought these coins from a dealer I would pay $450, the dealer I went to offered $250 for them. What do you guys want to do with the coins"

 

If they still want to sell them, then I will offer a price in between (Which means they get about $50 each)

 

If there are any problems, I'm just going to walk away from the coins... which is not what I want to do.

 

-Dave

[Leothelion]

Hi Dave

I went through the same thing in 1996. But as a christian, it was a celebration! Although my dad would be missed, his presents is still with us today. My dad also had coins, mostly mint and proof sets that included the brown boxed Ikes and my brother has them now. There are 6 siblings and no-one is fretting over them. There are also some 100 boxes with all of his other stuff that include his farm toy collection and they're all still sitting in the same place as they were stored. My mom collects dolls and she has what seems like 500 of those things. How all that stuff will be div-vied up is beyond me.

When my dad was on his death bed, he would sleep for awhile and then be awake but he was losing so much weight from the cancers he had but he was fully aware with what was happening. Everyone, his brothers and sisters, sons and daughters, many relatives and longtime friends came in from all over the United States to see him before he died. I had put on one of his favorite shirts while I was staying at his house and he notice I had on his shirt and commented. "nice shirt you have there" and I responded by saying, "Dad, if you really want to know, we're already div-ving your stuff up," and everyone laughed.

 

Leo

[Count_Erfit]

How about buying a grading book and a blue book and SHOWING them without having to waste a dealer's time for something he can't buy?

 

Now if you are going to pay a dealer to appraise it, that is a legitimate deductible expense for the estate and a very fair thing to do.

 

Just an observation.

 

I have often wondered (being a retired dealer and having faced that scenario many times) what would happen if said siblings who are so convinced there is a million bucks there, were offered the coins at ...oh....say 10 grand?

 

"splut...hmmph...well....er....hmmph...they look like just old coins to me.."

[EZ_E]

re: They just wanted the money in their hands - now.

 

 

It's unfortunate, but greed rears its ugly head anytime there's a death in the family. I certainly saw it when my dad died.

Based upon my interpretation of the story, GDJMSP was not the dishonorable one but the siblings were. I'm just glad that the collection wasn't broken up and sold for pennies on the dollar to satisfy the both the greed of the siblings and the dealer.

[Count_Erfit]

I got involved in a sibling mess years ago. Couple ladies came into shop and sold me some VERY nice crowns. They said they had a BUNCH of coins and stamps and were going to bring them in.

Time passed and I got a call from a fellow dealer bragging how he ripped a collection. The similarities were there, so I wondered what had happened to the ladies so I tracked them down from the receipt of purchase and asked what happened.

They were all flustered. They remembered me and said they couldn't remember where my shop was and they thought they got cheated. (they did) I asked if they had any coins left and was invited to their home.

When I arrived, they took me aside and asked if I knew STAMPS. I told them yes and they asked if I thought the guy in the driveway loading boxes had ALSO cheated them. I asked for details and they told me it was the second PICKUP load of stamps the guy was taking for $500. He left when he saw me.

I assayed the stamps in the loft and they were all US regular issue in IMMENSE quantities. 500-1000 of each reg issue of the 19th century.

Turns out their brother was a wholesaler to wholesalers. He bought stamped mail and soaked off the stamps and bundled them in 100's.

They wanted to sell everything before he got out of hospital.

The stamps brought $250,000 the next day. The end buyer paid 1.25 mill for those 2 pickup loads of stamps.

The coins were gone. My "buddy" got them.

 

Why oh why don't collectors or dealers ALL have a list of what the stuff is worth?

 

I keep a database (private) that my heirs can look at. I update it from time to time on all my coins and antique toys and guns.

[Oldtrader3]

I need to rewrite my will after watching my Half-siblings fight over the few possessions of my Mother, who died earlier this year. It was stuff that she took to the Nursing Home and none of it was worth much. I nearly died in February, which made me very aware of my estate's exposure.

 

For one thing, I have receipts for every coin (over about $50) that I have purchased in the last many years. One son and a daughter know this and I will provide explicit written instructions for disposal of any coins that they, or the other kids, do not want. Plus I have a database, that needs updating, but contains every major coin in my collection.

 

They will at least know the retail structure of my collection and have a short list of who to talk to about what (no carrion eating Jackel variety of Coin Dealers made the list). Sorry but, I would have to come back from the grave and axe-murder any dealer that robbed my heirs (at face value) for my coins.

[dakra]

Hey if anyone re-write's their Will, please be agonizingly analytical in your instructions My parents wrote in their Will that anyone who stays in the house will be responsible for the upkeep and monthly bills.... so they want to rent out rooms/the apartment so they can pay the bills.

 

The coins are in my possession and will most likely remain in my possession for a while. I'm not going to bring the collection to a dealer, if they want to know the value, they can have them appraised themselves.

 

I decided to distance myself from the money squabbling, in a year, everything will be said and done.

 

-Dave

[Leothelion]

Here's an idea! Use Mister Lister! If it's the last thing we do before we croak, hit the upload button.

 

Leo