Photography help, please?

[pendragon1998]

Okay, I am starting to get frustrated, so I'm going to put down my camera for the rest of the day, and hopefully get some suggestions from you brilliant photographers before I start again.

 

I've been trying to photograph a favorite SBA of mine, and I'm not having any luck. I've got a Nikon D70 digital SLR with a zoom 18-70 mm lens. I'm fairly good at regular photography, but when it comes to coins, I'm running up against a wall. Right now, I've got the camera set up on a tripod, facing down, with the coins on a black surface about as close as I can get to the lens and still focus. I've been using natural sunlight, with a shade to keep the direct light from hitting the coins and completely washing them out. I think my problem is getting the coin in perfect focus, and I'm still having problems getting a good exposure. I've tried the autofocus as well as manually focusing the lens, but I'm having a difficult time reviewing the tiny image of the coin to focus. I'm using the remote shutter release to minimize vibrations. It isn't helping much that I have to remove the camera each time I want to review the images on my pc.

 

I suppose what I really need to do is go out and buy a few lights and do this indoors next to my pc, but without lighting, that's not going to work right now. Can anyone offer me any hints on prefocusing the coin and anything else you think would be useful to know? Here's the best set of images I've gotten so far. (Sorry about the size, but I thought it necessary to show you what I'm getting)

 

Thanks for the help!

 

[RGT]

You have a camera that is up to the job, you just need to learn more about how to use it. Though it's no help right now, you should consider getting a dedicated macro lens. I use a Canon Digital Rebel with a 100mm macro lens.

 

While getting close to the coin is ok, you may want to back off a bit. Zoom in with the lens to the 70mm setting and back off some. I try to get a decent fill of the lens with the coin so the autofocus will be using the coin and not the background, but it may have trouble if you get too close. A little distance also helps you get your lighting at the angle you want.

 

I don't like to use natural sunlight. I typically wait until after dark so I can have complete control over the lighting. It also helps with setting the white balance if your light source is consistent. I guess 90% of my pictures are taken with a single hand held lamp using a Reveal bulb. It's cheap and very flexable. It works well for me with smaller coins but starts to have problems with halves and dollars.

 

That's all I can think of at the moment. I hope some of it helps.

[TomB]

I also have a Nikon D70 and that is the camera that I use to take all the images that I post on the boards. Here are some suggestions from me, based only upon how I take images-

 

1)You should use a dedicated macro lens for up close coin photography.

2)I find that a shutter release is not needed.

3)Use a tripod.

4)Use an adequate light source or sources.

5)Manually focus the image while looking through the camera at the object, do not use the backscreen for focus.

6)Make certain to have the correct white balance.

7)Take multiple images of the coin before dismantling the apparatus.

8)If possible, take the images close to your computer, so that you may be able to link the camera to the computer directly while taking shots.

 

I'll post a few of my shots taken this way.

[TomB]

Here are two images from a recent thread that I posted and both were taken using my Nikon D70. There are also three other points I thought of when taking coin images-

 

9)Don't put white or bright silver coinage on a black background because the viewfinder might average the color that it sees throughout the field of vision and thus will overexpose the image; I use a white sheet of paper for the background on siver and nickel coinage.

10)Similarly, don't put copper coins on a white background because the coins may be underexposed, for the reasons mentioned above; I use black velvet as the background for copper coinage.

11)I do not take the image from as close as you do, my shots are typically 8-12 inches between camera and coin and this allows for better lighting with fewer shadows or hot spots.

[jom]

9)Don't put white or bright silver coinage on a black background because the viewfinder might average the color that it sees throughout the field of vision and thus will overexpose the image; I use a white sheet of paper for the background on siver and nickel coinage.

 

Normally, I'd have to say here I disagree with this one. I have MUCH better results when the background is darker. I have a LOT of trouble with NGC slabs for this exact reason.

 

However, I'm in the process of changing the way I do photos...using JamminJ's input. I think your statement may well be true since I've been taking my photos far too close up. Another words, I need a macro-lense of some sort because the shadows and it gives me fits!

 

So when I use the new set-up I'll probably have to change the background and lighting...

 

jom

[Bruceswar]

your main issue is lighting if you ask me. Thats where I have had most of my struggles. You setup is very close to what I have been using on my coins. I am using the Canon Digital Rebel. I have used indrectsun before, but mainly I have used 2 OTT lights. I have been meaning to expierment more with my macro lens and lighting, but I have just not got around to it. Here is an image with indirect sunlight

This image was taken just out of the sunlight to keep the glare off the coin. And here is an image using the 2 OTT lights, which did not capture the luster as well as I wanted, but had I spent more time with the images, I could have made it better.

As far as your focus goes, you may need to manually recalibrate the camera. Hope that helps some.

[EZ_E]

your main issue is lighting if you ask me.

 

That's what it sounds like to me, too. Otherwise, it seems you're doing everything else right. Try holding one light source in your hand and experimenting with the angle with multiple exposures. But, if you're using natural sunlight scrub the holding in your hand part.

[Bruceswar]

your main issue is lighting if you ask me.

 

That's what it sounds like to me, too. Otherwise, it seems you're doing everything else right. Try holding one light source in your hand and experimenting with the angle with multiple exposures. But, if you're using natural sunlight scrub the holding in your hand part.

 

I love that .. Hold the sun in your hand, I wonder if it would burn?

 

On a serious note, practice and knowing your surroundings, is what will get your pics better.

[James_OldeTowne]

When my images blur like that, it's usually because the camera is too close to the lens.

 

I have an extremely unsophisticated setup. I prop the coin against my keyboard, position my single-bulb lamp just right and snap the picture with the camera hand-held. It's only when I hold it too close to the coin that the image blurs.

 

James

[pendragon1998]

Thanks, everyone, for all the thoughts and suggestions you offered. I will probably be in the market for a macro lens at some point soon, but for now, it sounds like I should be able to be doing better than I'm doing. TomB, can you tell me what kind of macro you're using with your d70 rig?

 

My next goal is to pick up a used lamp or two that have flexible necks so I can use them while lighting my coins. Hopefully, I can get them tomorrow. I'll try different colored backgrounds for the photos too, so perhaps that will improve things. I'll try and take some more photos on Saturday and see if things improve.

[TomB]

A 60mm Nikkor lens and I use it for all my photography, not just coins, and it takes terrific pictures everytime.

[pendragon1998]

Huh. I've got a 18-70mm Nikkor. You'd think that would have me covered. Another thing II was just thinking was that my camera may not be a a perfect 90 degrees to the plane of the coin. I have a really ghetto tripod, so that might be something to think about.

[TomB]

My tripod is a corroded metal one from 1978 and I only level it by eye, so you likely don't have much of an excuse on that one. I believe that a telephoto lens such as you have is not the same thing as a dedicated macro lens like I use and will not produce the same images.

[pendragon1998]

Fair enough :-) Things are improving somewhat. I took this in the evening outside (still haven't gotten me those lights, but they're coming). I think this is a little better than my first attempt.

[TomB]

I agree that it is better and also agree with those who suggest that the lighting and focus was the main issue in the first set of images. By the way, I may own a Nikon D70 but I am in no way a photography guru.

[pendragon1998]

Okay, I fooled around with my new setup tonight. I made a little progress, but I still don't feel happy with my results. I think one of my problems is the lighting still. I bought two 6" aluminum reflectors at Home Depot and put Phillips natural 60 Watt bulbs in them. I've got all other lights in my room off. Camera's on a tripod, same lens as previously mentioned. I've been shooting mainly on a piece of white paper. As you can see on this image, I skuzzed up my white balance at some point tonight, which I missed while imaging. I can easily enough set that right, as it was fine earlier in the evening.

 

I'm thinking my problem is still lighting position and focus. For some reason, I'm not getting as crisp of a shot as I really want. I've been relying on autofocus, since every time I try and see that little coin in my viewer for manual focus, I don't do as good a job as the camera. Actually, I'm now thinking that maybe it's just a combination of lighting and a very shiny coin. I'm getting over-exposed areas on the edges of the devices and that's what's making me think I'm out of focus. Opinions on that?

 

Can someone advise me on my lighting? Angles and clock positions to try?

 

Sigh, 3 am, 80 images later, and I'm still frustrated. G'night!

 

[James_OldeTowne]

One thing you should definitely try is having a black, preferably a matte-black background. Black construction paper works well. Unless I'm in a hurry and just want to snap a quick shot, a white background never does well for me.

 

The camera may still be a little too close. You aren't zooming in too much, are you? Also, see if you have a macro setting (it should be turned on).

 

Your images are definitely getting better!

 

James

[Larry Dreher]

I try to use the highest F stop I can for the greatest depth of field. That will make up for small errors in focus.

 

I also recommend using the self timer as a poor man's shutter release. Mine can be set at 2 seconds and allows the camera to be perfectly still. Because I use a high F stop, my shutter times are typically around 1/15 of a second and If I press the shutter release manually, I typically get blurry pictures.

[pendragon1998]

I've got my camera on aperature priority mode, since that gives me more control over manually-setting white balance, exposures, etc. Macro mode doesn't work as well in my experience. I've got the coin well within the focus range of my lens and I'm using a 2-second delay.

 

I'll try raising the f-stop. I had been keeping it lower to increase the light reaching the sensor, but perhaps I've had that part backward. I will also give a black background another try. I'll post the results next time through. Until then, any and all advice is greatly appreciated! I won't rest until I've got a sharp photo of my coin.

[pendragon1998]

I took a break from my evil shiny SBA and decided to image a prettier, older woman.

 

Obverse only, 1902-O:

 

[TomB]

The images still seem out of focus to me, and I don't believe it is a function of depth of field.

[MunkyMan95]

I feel the same as TomB. Maybe try a large cent perhaps. Relatively dark in color, large in size. Start out small and work your way up to the really shiny things.

[pendragon1998]

Still having focus issues, as you can see. Any workarounds?

[TomB]

The only thing I can think of, and this seems to me to be trivial, is that you are manually focusing on the coin and when you release the lens from your hand you are actually shifting the height of the camera and that is throwing your focus off. This is fairly easy to do if you have your tripod on thick carpet and you are leaning over the coin to view it. However, this is truly a guess as I have no other thoughts on the matter.

 

If it makes you feel any better, you really do have just about the best camera out there and will eventually take superb shots with it.

[pendragon1998]

I've played with my lighting to try and get a brighter field, which would allow me to get up to around f/10-f/13. I've also gone to manual focus and discovered that a teeny-tiny (and I do mean very small) turn on my focus ring will yield vastly different results in terms of what is in and out of focus at this magnification. Here is a result of my latest work. This image is cropped at 100% and I did a very minor touchup in photoshop to correct the white balance a tad. I'm still not 100%, but I feel like at least I'm in the 90%'s. Thanks so much for the help so far - I invite further comments as I continue to work on improving my imaging.

 

[zrlevin]

It looks much better, Although you made SBA look really really grumpy.

[pendragon1998]

Is this any better?

 

[Bruceswar]

much better if you ask me

[pendragon1998]

I think I'll go ahead and list a few of the pointers I've picked up along the way in case anyone is following this thread:

 

• 
  
• With a reflective coin such as this one, my best results were with the lighting high up and perpendicular to the plane of the coin.
   
  
• I used two 60 watt lamps with reflectors, but I think that higher wattage lamps or smaller reflectors (thus allowing me to put brighter light on the coin) would serve even better.
   
  
• Turn off all room illumination and use only the photo lighting when composing and photographing the coins.
   
  
• Use the highest f/stop available on your camera while maintaining a shutter speed upwards of 1/80 or 1/100 sec. Higher f/stops yield higher depth of field (easier focus).
   
  
• Use a cable/remote shutter release or the camera's timed release.
   
  
• I found manual focus to be the only acceptable method, as the autofocus had difficulty at such close range. Minute focus ring movements made a significant difference.
   
  
• Set up your digital camera and tripod close enough to your computer that you can simply plug in the camera and view each successive image on your computer as you take them.
   
  
• Change only one variable with your photography setup (e.g. lighting, focus) with each photo, then review that photo before changing anything else.
   
  

 

I'll list more pointers as they come to mind.