First submission: body bagged! Fake Coin!

[WaxonWaxov]

Well, I recently sent my first coin for grading: 1914 Quarter Eagle that I spent #$300 on.

 

It came back to me body bagged. The reason: It's FAKE!

 

So now I'm in a gridlock dispute on PayPal with this jerk named David O'Dowd in South Boston (who goes by "The-Word" on Ebay)

 

He says "I don't know what you sent to NGC, but the coin I sent you is genuine"

 

So he can't prove the coin he sent me was genuine, and I can't prove the coin he sent me is the one I sent NGC.

 

I guess I'll just wait for PayPal to decide. Every time I try to email this guy he responds with threats like "I'm a biker and I'll come to Chciago and kill your "

 

So I guess the moral of the story is never buy a coin of Ebay that isn't already certified.

[Brotherman]

Save those emails – get the authorities involved. It’s against the law to

threaten someone’s life – even in an email.

 

Hays

[Stanley]

Save those emails – get the authorities involved. It’s against the law to

threaten someone’s life – even in an email.

 

Hays

 

May be against ebay policy as well.

 

Waxon, who does he ride with? Did he say?

[ldhair]

His Ebay info.

[WinstonWare]

That stinks about the $300. Hope you get it back...

 

I'm a biker and I'll come to Chciago and kill your...

 

 

I really wouldn't worry about this at all.

[Stanley]

You ever heard of the moped gangs of Boston? Unless he has a car I wouldn't worry about him comming to Chicago.

 

"LAST EXIT: Boston Through the Eyes of its Moped Gang"

[Brucec-migration]

I also would not worry about this but I would definitely forward his emails to ebay that would really help your case to me he just admitted he sent you the fake.

 

Best of luck with this to bad there are always so many out there ready to take advantage of us all.

[Brotherman]

I'm not saying that you have to worry about his guy.

He is probably a kid - or an accountant.

The point is, you treat all bullies the same way.

If cops show up at his house he’ll wet his diapers.

BTW – I’m SURE his actions are against eBay’s policy.

He should be reported there as well.

 

Hays

[jtryka]

Wow, I am really sorry to hear about your situation, especially the psycho seller making it worse with his childish behavior. That is perhaps the worse reason to be attached to any BB coin since you are just stuck. At least if it was cleaned or damaged, you could still resell it noting the problems and certainly someone would likely buy it though at a discounted value. With a fake there is not much you can do, since selling a known counterfeit can get you in more trouble than you'd care to get into.

 

It just goes to show that no matter your experience level, buying raw gold sight unseen is a minefield of potential problems. Unless you can see the coin first or have a return priviledge AND you can identify fakes yourself, it's better to just buy certified gold.

 

PS- about the body bag itself, don't feel too bad, my first submission to PCGS had one coin slabbed and 4 bb'ed for anything from cleaning to altered surfaces!

[TomB]

So I guess the moral of the story is never buy a coin of Ebay that isn't already certified.

Actually, I think the better moral to this story is to never buy a coin off of ebay (or anywhere else) if you don't have the knowledge to immediately identify problems with it.

[ldhair]

Actually, I think the better moral to this story is to never buy a coin off of ebay (or anywhere else) if you don't have the knowledge to immediately identify problems with it.

Well said.

[macrocoin]

If you used paypal, then you used your credit card I assume.

If that is the case, simply call the card company and explain that you purchased a fake, that the seller is unwilling to make an exchange or a refund, and you wish to reverse the charge. They will issue a chargeback, you get your funds back, keep the fake coin, and the seller gets screwed. You win, they lose.

 

To be fair, i would normally let the seller know they have a finite time to correct the situation or you will initiate a chargeback. Any intelligent vendor would make good at that point rather than risk the credit implications. Being that this person is making threats, I wouldnt offer any advance notification, and as others suggested, might involve the police.

 

Good luck.

[Stanley]

Waxon: How long did it take you to pay him? Allow him that much time for your refund.

 

If he or she don't comply, tell them you will be notifying ebay and the police in there area of the threats you have received. You do have proof I hope.

[BankNote1]

My first rule with gold is: If I don't know the dealer, the coin must be slabed by NGC, PCGS, or ANACS, before I will buy it! There is just to much fake and worked over gold flying around outthere!!!

[Morgannut]

Report this to Federal Authorities --since he's in a gang and possibly organised--they will be interested after ther "black eye" over Whitey Bolgar, et. al.

 

It's against the law to threaten your life by wire=

 

It's against Federal law to sell counterfeits=

 

Of coarse I doubt it's against Ebay's rules----

[James_OldeTowne]

If it's any consolation, you can probably get $150 - $200 if it's real gold, which most fakes are.

 

James

[cointagious]

If it's any consolation, you can probably get $150 - $200 if it's real gold, which most fakes are.

 

James

 

 

You're a tad bit hi there in your guesstimate.

[WaxonWaxov]

Wow.

 

I wait 20 hours and 16 replies!

 

Anyhow:

 

1) Yes, I have copies of the emails he sent me. If It comes to a court case I will use them then.

 

2) I tried to contact Ebay, but the bottom line is Ebay doesn't care. All they care about is dominating the marketplace and collecting their seller fees. Ebay will ALWAYS side with a Power Seller over a casual user. Don't believe me? Google "ebay bully" and read the first link

 

3) I paid him using my PayPal balance ( I won't make that mistake again) I've opened a PayPal dispute, but God only knows how long that will take. All PayPal payments from me are going to be Credit Card from now on. I don't care how much PayPal doesn't like it.

 

4) I think he's realized the error of his ways as far as name calling (something that rhymes with 'maggot') and threats go becasue he has been more civil recently... whatever.

 

5) He offered a 85% refund only if first closed the dispute and sent him the coin back. So I replied "Oh so 1, I close the dispute, 2, I send the fake coin back, and then 3, you tell me to go to hell? I don't think so."

 

6) I doubt he's really any kind of gang member. His primary thing is restoring old Bibles. I figure he just a smack-talking Irish from the South side of Boston. You know, those people who keep re-electing Ted Kennedy.

 

7) If in fact the PayPal dispute goes in my favor (it better if they know what's good for them) and they tell me to send the coin back to him, do you guys think it's reasonable for me to in some way deface the fake coin? You know something like scratch "fake" accross both sides? I don't want this gut to turn around and try to screw someone else. I'm just glad I submitted it to NGC as quickly as I did.

 

8) So if PayPal dispute doesn't go through, What's my next step? Small claims court in my jurisdiction? If so can I go from punitive damages due to the threatening emails?

 

9) Thanks to Idhair for posting that Goofbay thing. I didn't know such a thing existed. I will be visiting that site a lot in the future.

 

10) I disagree with TomB:

Actually, I think the better moral to this story is to never buy a coin off of ebay (or anywhere else) if you don't have the knowledge to immediately identify problems with it.

If it's encapsulated and you make for damned sure you get the same slab, you should be OK.

 

Thanks again to all. I will keep you posted.

 

PS.. anyonw know a phone number for PayPal?

[James_OldeTowne]

I suggest not defacing the coin. There are people, including myself, who collect counterfeit coins for legitimate reasons, not the least of which is for reference. They can be used as teaching tools, but defacing them decreases their educational value.

 

If you cannot get the issue resolved, I will offer you $150 for it if it is a die-struck coin of proper gold content.

 

James

[ronday]

Save those emails – get the authorities involved. It’s against the law to

threaten someone’s life – even in an email.

 

Hays

 

May be against ebay policy as well.

 

Waxon, who does he ride with? Did he say?

 

It is only against Ebay policy if the user is not a PoweSeller

[WaxonWaxov]

I suggest not defacing the coin. There are people, including myself, who collect counterfeit coins for legitimate reasons, not the least of which is for reference. They can be used as teaching tools, but defacing them decreases their educational value.

 

If you cannot get the issue resolved, I will offer you $150 for it if it is a die-struck coin of proper gold content.

 

James

 

I'll take all that into consideration. I have no idea as to the gold content though.

[Stanley]

Your not the only one to fall into the grips of Ebay and A Seller from Hell.

 

PayPal phone number included in the following link.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...part=1&vc=1

[TomB]

You can feel free to disagree with me, but there are plenty of extraordinarily nice coins still not encapsulated and, if you do not take the time to educate yourself, you will always miss those coins if you follow your philosophy.

 

Also, if all you are worried about is authentication then major TPG slabs should be fine, but if you want a problem-free coin then you still have to have knowledge.

 

Ignore my posts in this thread at your own collecting peril.

[MAULEMALL]

You can feel free to disagree with me, but there are plenty of extraordinarily nice coins still not encapsulated and, if you do not take the time to educate yourself, you will always miss those coins if you follow your philosophy.

 

Also, if all you are worried about is authentication then major TPG slabs should be fine, but if you want a problem-free coin then you still have to have knowledge.

 

Ignore my posts in this thread at your own collecting peril.

I whole heartedly agree but I would have said Financial peril.

[WinstonWare]

Ignore my posts in this thread at your own collecting peril.

 

I know your right Tom. I'm spending as much time as I can reading coin books on my own, following these threads, watching coin DVDs. I hope to someday achieve enough confidence in my knowledge to post stuff like that. Very funny, very cool! Made me laugh.

[WaxonWaxov]

Now wait a minute.

 

One can educate one's self all they want. The picture online might be perfect. What if the picture online is good, but the coin you get is of another coin?

 

If the pic online is of a slabbed coin, at least you should be able to make sure you get the same slab number.

 

Right?

 

I will probably buy non-slabbed coins, but will check and double check sellers first.

 

Cheers

[ldhair]

Welcome WaxonWaxov.

Slabs are helpful but not always as nice as the image from the seller. It's easy to hide an ugly coin with a pic.

 

If it's raw or slabbed, one must have the knowledge once in hand to know if the coin is right. If raw, waiting for a service to tell you is often too late.

 

Please look back on Tom's post with a fresh mind.

I feel he is spot on with some great thoughts.

Hang in here for a while and learn with the rest of us.

[Brotherman]

Hi WaxonWaxov and welcome!

 

TomB is definitely a guy to listen to - lots of big brains on that one.

 

I’m new as well – only been collecting for almost a year and a half now. BUT

I can tell you a couple of things.

 

First of all, buying slabbed coins only give you a marginal amount of

protection. Sometimes coins will slip through the cracks at the grading

services and will get graded higher than they deserve – this happens more

than you might expect. AND just because two coins have the same grade from

the same grading service DOESN’T mean they are the same quality – even if

they are technically graded correctly. Even worse, artificial toning and

cleaned coins also get into slabs with surprising frequency.

 

Your ONLY protection is to learn how to grade and how to recognize

problem coins. It takes a lot of study and determination to be able to do all

of this. It’s tough believe me, I’ve been working my tail off at it and I can’t do it

yet either.

 

May I make a suggestion? Stop buying high-end coins right now, stay away

from ALL the MS coins altogether. A mistake at that level – and you are bound

to make them - can be very expensive. Pick a coin series that you like, post a

lot of questions about the series - find which books to buy and read them.

You will learn very quickly which guys are the experts on that series. Pick

their brains. Learn how to grade that series. In the meantime, put together

a collection of those coins in a circulated grade like Fine, Extra Fine, or

AU (depending on the series and your financial resources). Everyone here will

tell you that they would rather have a collection of original circulated coins over

a high MS set of cleaned coins any day! Besides, a mistake in a Fine grade will

usually only cost you a couple of bucks. Trust me, you WILL make them - we

all do!

 

We all have to crawl before we can walk. There are too many sharks in the

waters waiting to make a buck off of new collectors. Taking it slow and

learning as much as you can will foil their attempts at picking your pockets!

 

Hays

[WaxonWaxov]

thanks to all. I do read and get what you're all saying.

 

I guess I'm at the point where I'm not going to buy anything else unless I can hold it in my hot little hand first.

 

thanks again

[CurrierVentures]

bottom line, dont buy from anyone with less than 100% feedback. 100% show they will do WHATEVER its takes to make the customer happy. Even 99% feedback on Power Seller who has 10,000+ feedback still means 100 or more people were not satisfied. find out all you can about a seller before you commit to buy.

 

If a buyer is close to 100% but not perfect... find and read their negative feedbacks. See if their is a pattern of the seller screwing people. You can pick out the bitter buyers who wouldn't be happy with anything. Check to see that the seller RESPONDS to all negative feedback with some type of explanation. Get a sense of the tone of the seller. Curtious and willing to help? or negative and looking to cover his/her butt.

 

The important thing is to know that Ebay is full of sharks... be smart enough to swim in the other direction.