Thoughts from the road on a Saturday-Buffalo fans don't read this!

[jtryka]

So I went to the local coin show today, and on the way back I took a different route from normal since I had to stop up in Michigan to pick up some apple sausage for the Father's Day barbeque tomorrow. As I was driving home on US 12, I looked out into a field and there was a herd of buffalo! Maybe they were bison, I really don't know the difference.

 

So, this got me thinking that the Buffalo (technically Indian Head/Bison) nickel design is perhaps the most overused mediocre coin design in American history. Sure, on the nickel from 1913-38 it was fine, though remarkably non-durable (after all, what other design can you think of that is dateless in Fine). But in recent years, this design has been dredged up so much it's nauseating! Sure the Buffalo silver dollar was a nice coin (still not sure what we were commemorating with that one), but now the Bison strikes again on the one-ounce .999 fine gold bullion coin, I say enough already! There's still a billion nickels floating around out there with this design, do we really need another rendition? Are there really no more new ideas in coin design in America? Should we close the patent office too?

 

I know you buffalo nickel fans will take offense to this, but I imagine you might be just as exasperated if George Morgan's Liberty was being redone every 5 years in different metals. The only good thing I can say about all this is that the most recent designs will never circulate, so at least we won't have to deal with dateless 1-ounce gold bullion coins being sold on eBay!

[TomB]

Flowing Hair silver coinage and SLQs can be found with similar date problems. Other than that, I agree with what you have written about the (over) use of the design motif.

[MunkyMan95]

So I went to the local coin show today, and on the way back I took a different route from normal since I had to stop up in Michigan to pick up some apple sausage for the Father's Day barbeque tomorrow. As I was driving home on US 12, I looked out into a field and there was a herd of buffalo! Maybe they were bison, I really don't know the difference.

 

So, this got me thinking that the Buffalo (technically Indian Head/Bison) nickel design is perhaps the most overused mediocre coin design in American history. Sure, on the nickel from 1913-38 it was fine, though remarkably non-durable (after all, what other design can you think of that is dateless in Fine). But in recent years, this design has been dredged up so much it's nauseating! Sure the Buffalo silver dollar was a nice coin (still not sure what we were commemorating with that one), but now the Bison strikes again on the one-ounce .999 fine gold bullion coin, I say enough already! There's still a billion nickels floating around out there with this design, do we really need another rendition? Are there really no more new ideas in coin design in America? Should we close the patent office too?

 

I know you buffalo nickel fans will take offense to this, but I imagine you might be just as exasperated if George Morgan's Liberty was being redone every 5 years in different metals. The only good thing I can say about all this is that the most recent designs will never circulate, so at least we won't have to deal with dateless 1-ounce gold bullion coins being sold on eBay!

 

Don't forget about all the statehood quarters that have used, or plan to use bison on their design!

[TJ'S Coins]

The Buffalo Nickel was one of the most innovative designs in common circulating coins in that the reverse literally filled the whole back from rim to rim. The obverse featured the profile of a genuine Native American and not a woman of European descent in a chief's head gear. These are positive things.

 

You have no quarrel with me regarding the wear factor of the date and legend in back. This was also a disappointment with the Standing Liberty Quarter of the same era. It too was a beautiful coin that did not wear well. Too bad. I believe these, along with the Walking Liberty Half were innovative for their era.

 

Americans are big on nostalgia, perhaps too much so when it hinders creativity and exploring new designs. I love many of the old patterns of the coins in US history, but we should not be afraid of coming up with new designs that reflect our present and hopes for the future. Maybe this is the problem, we have trouble defining a common goal and ambition as a nation at the peak of world power. Where do we go from here? How can we express ourselves today in a way that will continue to define this generation a century or two from now?

 

Repristinating favorite designs of the past does not belong on circulating coinage. This is why the silver commemorative and bullion gold are the best avenues to do this if we must. Why not be bold and encourage the best sculptors and designers to give us circulating coinage that will be as beautiful and unique for us as were the Buffalo Nickel, Standing Liberty Quarter, Walking Liberty Half and Peace Dollar did for the generation from 1913-1947. Are we up to the challenge?

 

Thanks for the thoughtful post and reflections on your drive today.

[jtryka]

Just remember, Pratt's design on the half and quarter eagle featured a "genuine" Indian and it pre-dated the appearance on the nickel by five years, and given the incuse design made that coin far more innovative than it's base metal cousin. I do agree that more than a few of the other coins of that era did not wear well, but those designs have not been revisited to the extent of the nickel. And perhaps you are right, we do not have a common vision of who we are or where we are going. But given the coinage desings we have today, I think that will be readily apparent to future generations, by our lack of innovation. We could use a man like Teddy Roosevelt again...

[RWB]

At the time they were introduced, the "renaissance" designs from 1907-1921 were the work of some of the country's best sculptors - artists in 3-dimensional media. All of the artists had strong national reputations at the time they created their coin designs, and their confidence is reflected in the work. After Saint-Gaudens Striding Liberty/Flying Eagle – an innovation in bringing movement to the design, Fraser's nickel design was probably the best of the entire lot as an artistic design, but then, Fraser was the best of Saint-Gaudens' former assistants. Adolph Weinman was a close second and his two coins clearly show his talent.

 

What we have not done since 1921 is to engage the nation's best sculptors, given them broad themes, then trusted to their creative talent. (The Peace dollar is a good example. The competition rules were simple: Liberty portrait on one side, eagle on the other, make the whole thing emblematic of peace and the end of the war. That's it. Sculptors - run off and use your creativity to come up with something.) The modern mint has a staff largely composed of hard working, flat-art specialists. The 50-State quarters are entirely typical of the workman-like character of their product (bolstered with a generous dose of bureaucratic ignorance and short-sightedness). The staff and "infusion" folks are not 3-dimensional artists, so they cannot bring to their compositions the full force and depth of sculpture. The painters, sculptors and other artists knew this in 1907, but seemed to have forgotten it today when sculpture is little more than a pasted-up photocopy or a bit of polished junk with a label on it.

 

Our citizen review bodies are little better. They happily select designs based on some shaded pencil or charcoal drawing or a commerce-oriented computer rendition. 80-years ago Jim Fraser reminded the Commission of Fine Arts that coin and medal designs must be judged only from relief models – a drawing will never who the character and ultimate success of the composition. Charles Barber said the same thing in 1887! Yet, here we have the CCAC and CFA reinforcing the flat-art concepts so dear to modern minters.

 

In sum: sculptors design coins and medals, mints execute the design to the coinage. If you read either of my books you’ll see this philosophy reinforced by everyone from the artists, CFA, Mint and even politicians.

 

End of short rant…..good thread for venting, but no one at the mint reads or cares about what collectors and artists think.

 

PS: S-G's commision was $5,000 in 1905! Since then, no sculptor has been paid more for a coin design. If we want the best, we have to pay for the talent.

[EZ_E]

Reporters to Glimpse Nation’s First Pure Gold Investment & Proof Coins

 

 

United States Mint at West Point to Host Ceremonial Strike of American Buffalo Gold Coins

 

The news media (including camera crews, photographers and microphones) are invited to get a rare glimpse inside the United States Mint at West Point, New York, on Tuesday, June 20, 2006, to see the Nation’s first 24-karat, pure gold (.9999% fineness) one-ounce coin, the American Buffalo, being minted in both investor bullion and collectible proof versions at an official strike ceremony. A tour of the United States Mint, which will include its store of gold bars, will follow the ceremony.

 

 

As designated by Congress and the President, the United States Mint American Buffalo 24-Karat Gold Bullion and Proof Coins will take their design from the revered Buffalo Nickel of 1913, Type 1. The iconic James Earle Fraser image of an American bison will grace the reverse (tails side), and Fraser’s classic design of an American Indian will be featured on the obverse (heads side). The American Buffalo 24-karat Gold Coin will have inscriptions of the coin’s weight, denomination and gold content incused on the reverse in the design area commonly known as the “grassy mound.” The inscriptions read “$50,” “1 OZ” and “.9999 FINE GOLD.”

 

 

The United States Mint will begin taking orders for the bullion version on Monday, June 19th, and proof versions on Thursday, June 22, 2006. The United States Mint intends to produce the new American Buffalo 24-karat Gold Bullion Coins for both domestic and foreign investors, coin and precious metal dealers, banks, brokerage firms and other companies, who will obtain them through Authorized Purchasers. The United States Mint approves Authorized Purchasers after ensuring that they have met rigorous standards. To find an Authorized Purchaser or dealer in your area, go to http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/index.cfm?action=lookup or call 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). The new bullion coins will be priced according to the “spot price” on the daily precious metals market plus a small premium.

 

 

There will be a mintage limit of up to 300,000 for the American Buffalo 24-Karat Proof Coins. Customers may order the American Buffalo 24-Karat Gold Proof Coins from the United States Mint’s web site at www.usmint.gov or by calling 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468), starting June 22, 2006, at noon. There will be a limit of 10 proof coins, per order, per household. The price for the American Buffalo 24-Karat Proof Coin will be $875.

 

 

The United States Mint is also the world’s largest manufacturer of 22-karat (91.67% fineness) gold bullion coins, the American Eagles, as well as Silver and Platinum American Eagle Bullion Coins. The United States Mint’s American Eagle 22-Karat Gold Bullion and Proof programs will continue.

 

 

What: Striking of the new American Buffalo 24-Karat Gold Coins and tour of the United States Mint at West Point

 

 

Who: United States Mint Deputy Director David A. Lebryk

 

 

United States Mint at West Point Plant Manager Ellen McCullom

 

 

When: Tuesday, June 20 at 11 a.m.

 

 

Digital photographs of the new American Buffalo 24-Karat Gold Coins in both bullion and proof versions will be available Tuesday morning, June 20 at http://www.usmint.gov/about the mint/Coin Library/. For news media only: b-roll of the manufacture of the new 24-Karat American Buffalo Gold Coins will be fed via satellite Wednesday, June 21 at a time to be announced. (Satellite coordinates also to be announced.) A limited number of Beta tapes will be available to TV crews at 11 a.m. June 12.

[jtryka]

Excellent post RWB, I've been poring over your new book when I have spare time, and the research is excellent and documentation astounding. It's interesting to note that ASG was paid $5,000 in gold (just dividing that number by $20.67 per ounce and multiplying by today's gold price makes that about $140,000!), clearly that is an issue, since the mint will get what it pays for. As for the flat artists, it's a problem, but not unexpected given the low relief of todays coinage. With the flatness of strikes, a drawing might be even more accurate than a model! I was also thinking about the present designs and lack of vision for future generations, and I think a lot of it also comes down to the debasement of our currency, which not so ironically coincides with the debasement of our society in general, in my opinion.

[RWB]

To my simplistic view, the differences between a painter/drawing artist and a true sculptor is the visualization of a subject in 3-dimensions and the experience and skill to utilize extremely limited relief of a coin to produce an illusion of depth. Look at a nice 1932 quarter vs one of the cartoons presently on quarters. Flanagan attempted to convey the illusion of relief even when there was little to work with. Examine any of Weinman's WL halves (not just the 1916s & 17s) and notice what he did with feathers, drapery, pine cones, oak leaves and all the other details. Each has its own perspective and position relative to the flat background plane of the coin. Then look at the reverse of the current Kennedy half - a rubber stamp. The current set of circulating coins (and most of the commemoratives) could have been concocted by the neighborhood scrapbooking club.

 

One cannot take a shaded drawing and successfully convert it into 3-dimensions without fully understanding how to handle the optical illusions. Look at the Pegasus by Weinman on page 37 of RAC 1916–21 - the thing almost jumps off the page. (Maybe the flying horse is really a logo making your wallet fly out of your pocket at the local gas station?) See also the half dollar reverse model on p.128.

 

In any event, I think that much more can be done even within the limits of coin-relief, but it takes both talent and technical skill to do.

 

A further simplistic business view is to hire the best to do the best work, whether that is in computer networks, software design, or coinage design. Give them clear goals and operating parameters and don't fail to critique and listen. That is what the CFA did under Charles Moore, and has not really done for coinage or national medals since. There are some good folks on the CFA, but the standards are no longer present.

[jtryka]

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water (cue Jaws music), I got this week's Coin World in the mail and BAM! Right on the cover the proposed designs of the SF Mint commems with Longacre's Coronet Liberty on the obverse of the half eagle and George Morgan's Liberty on the silver dollar!

[RWB]

Looks desperate, doesn't it?

 

Better to copy something off the PPIE commems - at least they relate to SF and the mint.