Grading Walkers...need some help

[macrocoin]

Does anyone know a good online resource for grading Walkers?

I have seen that with most of the later dates the non-MS coins all fetch about the same market price, but I would still like to be able to group them by approximate grade. I have everything from culls up to what appear solid AU. I am looking for a list of features to compare against to determine the differences between the F, XF...and simply G ones.

 

I have always loosely used the detail on the feathers on the reverse and then the lettering on the obverse to know if it was a higher grade or not...i have enough of them now that I would like to really break down the differences.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

[TomB]

Go to the NGC Registry and look through the WLH sets. Our own supertooth has a terrific circulated set that I have written about previously. You might find it easier to find his set than to find the thread I wrote about it.

[HalfMad-migration]

macrocoin,

My favorite source for grading Walkers is not online. It is the book by Bruce Fox called "The Complete Guide to Walking Liberty Half Dollars". On pages 18-24 it has a lot of info about grading including a table showing the major strike problem areas for various dates.

 

There are several pages under the heading of "Determination of Technical Grade" with photos from AG to AU which should do the trick for you.

 

Unfortunately, the book is out of print. I got it from a guy named Orville Grady who specializes in numismatic literature. He apparently bought the remainder of the Fox book from DLRC Publishing and has stock. Orville's contact info can be found here .

 

If you're really into Walkers, this is a book you will use a lot.

 

Sorry I don't have a direct answer to your question.

 

Rich

 

This is my first post after lurking in this group for a while. I look forward to continuing to learn a lot from all of you.

[Brotherman]

Does anyone know a good online resource for grading Walkers?

I have seen that with most of the later dates the non-MS coins all fetch about the same market price, but I would still like to be able to group them by approximate grade. I have everything from culls up to what appear solid AU. I am looking for a list of features to compare against to determine the differences between the F, XF...and simply G ones.

 

I have always loosely used the detail on the feathers on the reverse and then the lettering on the obverse to know if it was a higher grade or not...i have enough of them now that I would like to really break down the differences.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

The best source is a guy named Bob aka supertooth. He is a member here and I'm sure will post soon.

 

Hays

[supertooth]

Macrocoin---Will give you what I use as guidelines.

Fine----Must have a complete rim. No wear running into any letters or date. About half of the Eagle's left wing feathers will be visible. This is the big wing. I always like to see the right breast line [left as you look at the coin]. The keyhole is not there---nor is the left breast line visible. But I like to see that right breastline be visible right up to where that keyhole would normally begin.

 

Very Fine20----Pupil of Eagle's eye must be visible. The keyhole must be visible with part of the left breast [right as you are looking at the coin] present. About 2/3rds of wing feathers are visible. These features get better as the grade increases. The inverted V where the ear hole would be located starts to be visible on a VF20 coin. If it is there, it is probably a Vf coin. If not visible, then it is a Fine coin. A VF25---breastline would be about a third to a half of the way visible on that left breast. A VF30 that breastline would be halfway or more across. A Vf35 it would be almost complete. As that Vf grade increases, there is more feather detail present.

 

Xf 40----Full breastline must be present---nothing missing. All feathers on reverse wing should be visible. To get to an XF45, there is a horizontal line of feathers at the base of the Eagle's neck. If those feathers are there, you got a good case for an XF45. If not present then the coin is at best a 40.

 

Au50---Feathers in Eagle's neck will start to be visible. A little luster should start to appear. All XF features are extremely sharp everywhere. Some detail along eagle's breast for well struck P and D mints. Some detail should appear in the thumb and finger areas of P and D minted coins. If no detail is visible there, it better be an S minted coin. Weakly struck issues [mostly S minted coins] will have weak thumb and finger detail even in some MS grades.

 

These are my grading opinions. Others may have opinions different than mine. Bob [supertooth]

[macrocoin]

Macrocoin---Will give you what I use as guidelines.

Fine----Must have a complete rim. No wear running into any letters or date. About half of the Eagle's left wing feathers will be visible. This is the big wing. I always like to see the right breast line [left as you look at the coin]. The keyhole is not there---nor is the left breast line visible. But I like to see that right breastline be visible right up to where that keyhole would normally begin.

 

Very Fine20----Pupil of Eagle's eye must be visible. The keyhole must be visible with part of the left breast [right as you are looking at the coin] present. About 2/3rds of wing feathers are visible. These features get better as the grade increases. The inverted V where the ear hole would be located starts to be visible on a VF20 coin. If it is there, it is probably a Vf coin. If not visible, then it is a Fine coin. A VF25---breastline would be about a third to a half of the way visible on that left breast. A VF30 that breastline would be halfway or more across. A Vf35 it would be almost complete. As that Vf grade increases, there is more feather detail present.

 

Xf 40----Full breastline must be present---nothing missing. All feathers on reverse wing should be visible. To get to an XF45, there is a horizontal line of feathers at the base of the Eagle's neck. If those feathers are there, you got a good case for an XF45. If not present then the coin is at best a 40.

 

Au50---Feathers in Eagle's neck will start to be visible. A little luster should start to appear. All XF features are extremely sharp everywhere. Some detail along eagle's breast for well struck P and D mints. Some detail should appear in the thumb and finger areas of P and D minted coins. If no detail is visible there, it better be an S minted coin. Weakly struck issues [mostly S minted coins] will have weak thumb and finger detail even in some MS grades.

 

These are my grading opinions. Others may have opinions different than mine. Bob [supertooth]

 

Thanks Bob - This is helpful. I just got back from the local bookshop and picked up the ANA Grading Standards 6th Edition. I havent ever owned one of these but I decided it was time to make the leap from generally knowing a good coin from a cull, and being able to discriminate between grades. I am looking forward to sorting through my Walkers (and other coins)

[HalfMad-migration]

Bob,

Your posts on Walkers are incredibly useful to me as a novice but avid collector. I have pulled out all my raw Walkers to grade again against your suggested standards. Thanks.

Rich

[supertooth]

Hello everyone! Glad that some of you are enjoying your Walkers. They are a beautiful coin. The grading is indeed subjective---and I am old school. So, if you follow my thoughts, you will be adhering to the standards of about 1970. I suggest that you do this because, as you may start to send coins to NGC or one of the other services----you will find that they mostly agree with me. Better to start out tough than to wish that you had done so.

 

Wanted to also remind everyone that you want to try and buy the coins with the least problems. Try to avoid coins with rim hits or dents----coins with scratches or hairlines from a cleaning----lighter colored coins that have been dipped or cleaned [that very silvery look]---- polished or whizzed coins---coins with gouges or dents or initials carved into them. Don't let anyone tell you that these things don't matter. Because they do. Coins with these and other problems will most often be body bagged [bB] by the TPGS -----or the coin's grade will be lowered because of them. A wonderful XF40 coin may find itself in a VF35 holder because of a scratch. If that coin were one of the 1919's or one of the 1921's, you can see the coin would have a tremendous loss of value. So, when you buy your coins, take the time to be sure of that technical grade---but always remember to check for the flaws. If the coin looks bad because of the problems, it is better to pass on this coin and hold your money to wait for a better example.

 

Would encourage everyone to be patient. If you buy too many coins when you start to collect, you may fail to really LOOK at the coins that you buy. I am still learning about Walkers and finding out stuff about them. And I have been at this for many years. Each and every little thing that you pick up in knowledge will help you to grade---to buy---and to enjoy each and every coin that you own. And as time goes by, you will start to see some mistakes that you have made and, when you see them, you can correct the problems as you advance your knowledge. So----go slow----read a lot---really LOOK at what you buy---ask a lot of questions on these boards. As long as I am here, I will try to help any and all of you. I do not mind sharing my info with all of you. Read my posts on the 'what you need to know' threads. An awful lot of info is there already.

And one more thing at this time. I encourage you to stay away from the higher MS coins in 65 and above if you are just a beginning collector of Walkers. Do not believe that others will tell you the truth----they will not. Do not buy coins in even the slabs until you are competent in the higher grades. Do not spend hundreds or thousands of bucks on a coin that you let someone else grade for you. Now, I know there are 'honest' dealers. I know that there are many coins in the top three TPGS holders that are accurately graded. But you do not know which ones are these. And, until you can really judge for yourself, you should buy lower graded coins and learn from them----and, only then, should you improve to the MS grades. Do not pay double or tripple or more for coins---and then a couple of years later find out that you were duped. Take it from this old collector. I have no reason to lie. I know what I am talking about. If you bought an MS 65 1919S Walker in a TPGS holder and some years later tried to sell it to a reputable dealer and he told you the coin was only a 63----think how much of a loss of money you might be dealing with. Wait till YOU YOURSELF know whether that coin is a 63 or a 65 before you ever attempt to buy it. Bob [supertooth]

[macrocoin]

supertooth - I agree with you regarding being able the grade the coins one buys, especially when a good deal of hard earned money is involved in the transaction. I am fairly new to grading and have historically bought what I understood. I have really only bought a handful of different types of coins and studied just them. Now I am starting to gain some of the finer points in differentiating between grades...and it makes a huge difference in my purchasing decisions. I have a few higher grade coins from the top two TPG's that I bought on faith and although I paid a fair value considering their denoted grade, I will feel a lot better being able to determine the grades myself.