Is this Trade Dollar AT or NT? and why do you think so? (not mine)

[ER]

Thanks for the education.

[James_OldeTowne]

Artificially toned, definitely. I only say that because I've actually had someone show me how to apply this kind of toning. I guess maybe it could occur naturally but even if that did happen, surely it would get bodybagged for AT.

 

James

[cpm9ball]

Artificially toned, definitely. I only say that because I've actually had someone show me how to apply this kind of toning. I guess maybe it could occur naturally but even if that did happen, surely it would get bodybagged for AT.

 

James

 

James, please explain to me how this AT is applied? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Chris

[michael]

no brainer AT

[James_OldeTowne]

Chris, I wish I knew!! All I can say is that I've seen a coin before it was doctored, and after, and it looked just like that.

 

Here's a quick story. There's a vest-pocket dealer who's still in business today - you seem him at practically every major show. He used to tote around an actual CHEMISTRY SET and would tone coins for you right before your very eyes. I remember one time he had a really awful bust dollar for sale. It was a greasy, waxy, putrid whitish beige color and was just about as blatantly doctored a piece of cr&p as you can imagine. I commented jokingly that it might look better if it had a little color. Know that he did? He said "OK!", and propped up his chemistry set on the table, mixed up a little concoction, dunked the coin into it, and voila, it was darker! The only problem was, it turned jet black ! It turned from a greasy, waxy white coin to a greasy, waxy black coin, and looked almost like a miniature hockey-puck. It went from looking like a piece of cr&p to looking like an even worse piece of cr&p!

 

This wasn't exactly the caliber of toning as on this Trade dollar, but I can assure you, this is by no means the only vest-pocket dealer out there toting around a chemistry set.

 

James

[cpm9ball]

That's okay, James. It's just that I thought that maybe one day I might need to impress someone with my extensive, one paragraph education in chemistry.

 

Chris

[Allan Ong]

How can you artificially tone coins (other than via chemically)? Also how would you recognize artificial toning vs natural toning?

[MAULEMALL]

Somebody told me if you take a potato andcut it in half.....

[physics-fan3.14]

Although this is AT, it doesn't look that bad, really. If it were discounted enough, and if I wanted it, I might consider buying it. What tipped you off that it was AT, besides having seen something like this before. It looks like the color progression is backwards if you ask me, especially on the obverse. If someone showed me just the reverse, I don't think I would be able to tell.

[MikeKing]

concentric brown-blue-brown-blue. Is that telltale? Has it been polished as well?

[MikeKing]

How can you artificially tone coins (other than via chemically)? Also how would you recognize artificial toning vs natural toning?

 

Do a search (on this board) on artificial toning and you'll find a plethora of helpful posts.

[shirohniichan]

Too bad this coin has been worked on. The 1873 is a better date, and I think it is underrated (like the 1874 used to be)/

[ER]

Somebody across the street mentioned the AT giveaway is the toning that goes over the devices. TomB, you have any comment?

[TomB]

I gave it a look and believe that I have no clue as to how this coin appears in-hand. I simply cannot get a feel for the interpretation of the image, hence, I have nothing constructive to add.

[HaydenTubbs]

I gave it a look and believe that I have no clue as to how this coin appears in-hand. I simply cannot get a feel for the interpretation of the image, hence, I have nothing constructive to add.

 

My thoughts as well,the image is certainly overexposed.

[MikeKing]

Somebody across the street mentioned the AT giveaway is the toning that goes over the devices. TomB, you have any comment?

 

CT collector, TomB and others contributed some posts that were incredibly informative and they're housed in the new area WYNTK + glossary

 

One ref: What you need to know - characteristics of AT/NT....

 

talks about color going over the letters, as in that famous Peace dollar that ended up on Anaconda's web site (which he dutifully removed).

 

I can only interpret this in my own style of ignorance, so my apologies to CT collector if I misunderstood (please help here if you're reading this), but my thought is that he didn't mean to imply that ALL toning over the letters implies artificial toning, just that this is often seen in the case of artificial toning.

 

The reason I conclude this is that there are many, many PCGS and NGC graded coins that have colorful rim toning that goes right over the lettering without changing at all. I know these two companies invariably slab artificially toned coins as naturally toned, but my guess is that usually they are right, and the coins are naturally toned (unless I'm too naive here).

 

I think the same thing applies to what was mentioned in the above referenced post about an NT coin showing the color within the letters, as being a general finding with NT vs AT but not an absolute, as I've seen AT coins with coloring within the lettering.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say, and the reason why I think TomB is hesitant to judge this, is that there are multiple things you have to look for and not one thing, and then, usually with coin in hand.

 

blah blah blah blah sometimes I don't shut up!

[EZ_E]

I still think that it looks much better as is than a dipped, blast white equilalent.

[Morgannut]

You can not tell AT - NT unless you are holding the coin--computer images are just no good for seeing it. If I were holding the coin, I'd look for the colors not only climbing over the letters/date, but for variation in color tone with depth of strike elsewhere. I'd also want to examine this one to see if areas too "glossy" indicating a cleaning, which the colors are intended to hide.