I am not very happy.

[truthteller]

About five years ago, I became a agressive buyer in a certain field of coin collecting. Many dealers knew I would collect very high end and colorful material. With the advent of Registry sets three years ago and the escalation in prices, I have been quite ignored, or at the very least, dropped down the pecking order. In fact, serveral of my coin sources have told me, if I don't buy it at XXX price, someone else will. I have been collecting for many, many years and have developed great relationships, but for some reason, with today's marketers, it seems that the long term relationship has been cast aside for the short term big money relationship that might be gone 6 months from now. Am I alone?

 

TRUTH

[fcloud-migration]

Dealers need profits to stay in business. They need to maximize profits. If you are willing to pay their price I'm sure they would be willing to sell to you.

 

How would they feel if they sold it to you at a discount becuase you really like the coin, and in a short period of time decide to sell? It would look like you were taking advantage of them.

 

Sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[Dog97]

Sad but true TruthTeller, $$ talks & bs walks. I guess I don't want the coins I want as much as the guys that want their name in the marquee lights do.

I'm an old dinosauer that would rather pay for the coin, not bragging rights.

 

[Chippewa]

I have found the same thing with one or two dealers. As long as you are willing to pay their asking price for the top stuff you can stay on top of the list, but as soon as you send a fingerprinted coin back or say a price is too high, you become a pain.

[braddick]

Those Dealers are short sighted. The best coin relationship are the long term ones. Who is going to (potentially) be buying from that same Dealer ten years from now?

 

I say service, as best you can, your loyal customer base.

If you do that the money will follow.

[TomB]

I'm in sort of a similar situation as you are, Truth. You and I have the same type of taste in coins, however, we persue different series. Thankfully. That being said, I also find it quite difficult to find intriguing material. Part of this is simply because there are more people looking for this type of coinage and looking for it aggressively while the other part is similar to what Dog wrote. I am simply not willing to pay certain prices for certain coinage at this time. I had always been known as someone who would pay well for the "look" and now I find that many people aren't even buying the "look" but are, instead, buying the grade. In those cases I am squeezed out.

 

I am counting on the semi-regular cycle in the coin market to wash away much of my competition in the future.

[jhar]

Do you guys think that a lot of the buyers, and registry members are folks who are far more interested in just aquiring the high prestige sets for the bragging rights than buying nice coins for their own enjoyment?? If so, do you think a lot of dealers are catering to those people??

[TomB]

I think there are a certain number of buyers who don't enjoy the individual coins that much but who take a greater interest in the overall position or score of their set(s). However, I think there are more dealers who cater to and count on these people than there are actually people who collect this way.

 

For me, it's a double edged sword in that I love wonderfully toned coins. Presently, the market for these pieces has exploded. Combining this explosion with the Registry makes for some very pricey coins. It is unfortunate for me.

[msmhappy]

Your not?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm, NO COMMENT!!!!!!!!!

 

mike

 

-------------------------------

 

dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!

[MikeKing]

It's like CVS doing away with the local pharmacies, K mart doing away with the mom and pop stores, Hertiage auctions and the internet making life more difficult for the dealer.

 

If your dealer wants to keep your business, he should be good to you. Realistic. But good to you.

[CarlWohlforth]

Do you think the market is unreasonable high for your speciality?

 

[truthteller]

Here's the scenario. The color coins I buy are neat. Three years ago, I was paying on a regular basis, 50% to 100% over blue sheet to buy the coin. The prices have progressively gone upward. Now they fetch between 200-400% of blue sheet. I have no problem paying these numbers, for the right look. It's a matter of just getting offered the coins. I have been calling diligently 2 particular dealers, with which I have had a very, very long term relationships, every monday for TWO years asking if nice coins were available or coming available. Once in a while, I get offered a very few nicer coins. Recently, one dealer bought a nice package of my type of coins, and was going to offer me some neat ones. Well, three weeks later, no coins offered. I find out there were some super coins in the deal that were offered to almost every top 5 registry guy or collector. Finally I get offered a few coins, 90% were not even pretty, 20% were sightunseen quality. Needless to say, I am not happy and this incident and it has damaged severely the long term relationship we used to have.

 

TRUTH

[Catch22-migration]

This is a tough call by my way of thinking. I would certainly expect a dealer that I had a long term relationship with to give me an opportunity to purchase a coin that he knows I am looking for. As to pricing, we all like to think we are given a little break for being good customers. Having said that, I wouldn't expect the dealer to leave much on the table...not when inventories are being squeezed in a hot market.

 

 

 

 

[msmhappy]

 

Hey truth!!!!!!!!!! What happened to "the good guy coin dealers"????????????????

????????????????????

????????????????????

????????????????????

????????????????????

????????????????????

????????????????????

???????????.

 

Well?? I'm waiting!!!!

 

mike

 

Please don't make posts with super long line with no spaces in them, as it can stretch out the width of the posts displayed on that page.

[truthteller]

No need to wait. Week #4 of good guy coin dealer was posted 3 days ago. BTW, after this latest fiasco, the 'unnamed dealer' has fallen off my list.

 

TRUTH

[CarlWohlforth]

I'm still not clear on one point. Are you still buying or do you think the market is overpriced?

 

I mean if it is a scenario where you are a nice guy who keeps in touch but isn't buying at today's prices what do you expect?

 

The reason I'm digging is that perhaps these coins are in a bubble market. I would like to sit on the sidelines rather then be burried in a coin.

[Android]

Do you think the market is unreasonable high for your speciality?

 

My specialties are Washington quarters and Mercury dimes. Nice slabbed Washingtons in high grades (MS67+) that are nicely toned are something I'm simply not willing to pay for right now. In fact, I'm loathe to pay too much of a premium for any toned coin as I'm equally attracted to brilliantly white coins as well, at least in the Washington series. Paying a few hundred bucks for a flawless, white as the day it was minted, lusterous, strongly struck MS67 mid forties Washington is reasonable to me. Paying $10,000 for the same coin with stunning toning just doesn't trip my trigger enough to justify the expense, although I certainly don't begrudge anyone whose trigger is tripped by such coins. My purchases of PCGS slabbed quarters has come to a screaming halt. I can find equally enticing material in NGC and other holders for multiples less than if the same coins were in PCGS plastic. I actually prefer to search dealers boxes at shows for the occasional raw toned or white gem that has gone unnoticed or unwanted and having it slabbed myself, the "thrill of the hunt", if you will. I built a majority of my set this way.

 

Andy

[TomB]

Your experience is very similar to mine, Andy.

[truthteller]

Carl,

 

To this moment, I am agressively buying. Many super coins have been put away for markets like this, so now is the time to buy these neat coins. In fact, I am meeting with a fellow collector who offered me first shot a some of his coins at Long Beach. I guess if the dealer can't treat you right, GO TO THE SOURCE. However, if the coin is just pretty, it doesn't warrant 4 times sheet.

 

TRUTH

[CarlWohlforth]

I like to buy from the source too! Do you have any photos of recent purchases? I love the images I see from TomB. He has some nice ones on his website. I will link a thread that shows a coin where I paid way more than 4 times sheet for. I know Tom has commented on this coin before.

 

Applachian Nickel

[baseball]

TRUTH,

 

The sad fact of life is that greed will effect even the closest of relationships. It sounds to me like that is the case here. However, since I don't know what the dealer is paying for these really nice coins, it may be a case where they may be paying even more that you are willing to buy them for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Beijim]

The only consolation I can offer, kohai, is this: If you sit by the river long enough, you'll see the body of your enemy floating by.

 

By which I mean there seem to be a lot of folks with a lot of money chasing these coins at present. It's likely that some will eventually tire of accumulating registry points (mine's bigger than yours), or will find other uses for the value stored in their collections. At that point, at least some of the material will resurface. In the nature of financial cycles, much of it might see daylight at more realistic prices.

 

Regarding greed, I can confirm that greed tests even the strongest friendships. Of course, once greed wins, you know immediately that whatever it was, friendship it wasn't.

 

Beijim

[MikeKing]

Speaking of Registry seekers and floating bodies....

And this is not to say I am against the Registry, actually, I both like and dislike the idea. What I find satisfyingly amazing is that while some registry seekers will blow the price of a coin way out of my desire to pay zone when I wanted it badly...it wasn't THAT badly....I feel quite smug sometimes when I watch them scramble for what I consider a substandard coin in the 'right' slab and the 'right' color and they don't notice the 'perfect' coin that just passed them by. Makes it a lot easier for me.

 

Patience and discretion generally win out.

 

UMMM what does this have to do with the first question??? Oh yeah, I know...

those greedy spendthrift know nothings who don't really care about the hobby of collecting as some of us know it are giving the greedy dealers incentive to treat us peons less kindly...

 

Yeah,,,,,that's it!

[MarkFeld]

Sorry, Truth, whether you were speaking of us or not, we prefer to offer our coins to our want list clients first. And, frankly, if we have a choice, we would rather sell our coins to our collector clients, as opposed to dealers. That way, we make the clients happy and might get the opportunity to reacquire the coins in the future, if/when the client sells.

 

Yes, we do wholesale business also, but, that is not our main focus. We have had a few dealers get upset with us from time to time, when we refused to sell new inventory items to them, even at full retail. Again, we believe that our retail clients should have priority.

[truthteller]

Mark,

 

All I can say at this point is several key dealers know I pay retail AND MORE for certain gorgeous colored coins. I have paid as much as 20 times sheet to as little as 2 times sheet. With these dealers, THEY ARE WELL AWARE of my ability and capablity of paying retail plus, plus, plus. Most other dealers are not aware, don't care, or don't deal in what I collect. However, believe me, the right people are very aware of this as was this dealer.

 

TRUTH

[michael]

the coin game is a very difficult place as it is filled with............. well i guess that is for another thread

 

and of course i understand all sides of this issue

 

i really do not have the answers

 

all i can say to the sellers/dealers is do what you think is right for you and everyone else be damned as remember if you try to please everyone you will please no one

 

if you believe in something stick to it you have to be true to yourself first

i think if you do that then everything will work out for you

 

as for buyers i think you need to find a coin seller that meshes with you and that you feel comfortable with and trust

 

sincerely michael