To slab or not to slab? That is the question....

[WaxonWaxov]

Hi guys, glad to be here.

 

OK, I recently aquired one each of the 2006 Ben Franklin Proof Silver Dollars. Both are still in their mint jewel boxes.

 

Should I slab these, or just leave them alone? IS the US MInt encapsulation air-tight?

 

Secondly, I recently dug out my coins I collected as a 7th grader (over 20 years ago) and have found my mint sets from the early 70s have taken on some toning, even though they're in their mint plastic bad thingies. Should I slab any of these?

 

thanks

[EZ_E]

I wouldn't unless you're participating in the registry.

[Beijim]

IS the US MInt encapsulation air-tight?

Hi, and welcome!

 

The U.S. Mint capsules aren't air tight. You can pry the halves apart easily using a pen knife or occasionally just your fingers.

 

Grading service slabs aren't air tight either, if by air tight you mean that a vacuum exists inside the slab. If you mean that there exists an impermeable barrier between the air captured inside the slab and the outside atmosphere, then one grading company provides this - NGC. Current generation NGC slabs are hermetically sealed.

 

I wouldn't bother with getting your coins graded unless you plan to sell them, want to enter them into the Registry, or don't mind the expense and want to afford them the extra protection the holder offers.

 

Regards,

Beijim

[James_OldeTowne]

Honestly, you are much better off not having it slabbed. The only way it's worthwhile is if you happen to nail a 70, and if you are such an odds player, your money is better spent playing the lotto.

 

Leave the coin(s) in the original mint packaging, and you'll be better off both financially and asethetically. Such coins simply do NOT look better in slabs.

 

James

[John Martinez]

Hi Waxon - welcome.

You may want to consider how you are storing your coins. Heat, cold, humidity, all affect coins, whether in slabs or not. I had some coins with edge toning until I got on this board and the wonderful people enlightened me. That is, of course, unless you want to collect toned coins.

[Allan Ong]

If you mean that there exists an impermeable barrier between the air captured inside the slab and the outside atmosphere, then one grading company provides this - NGC. Current generation NGC slabs are hermetically sealed.

 

PCGS slabs aren't airtight??

[TomB]

No slabs are airtight.

[WaxonWaxov]

thanks to all..

[KsPM-migration]

I would take a look at the Founding Father Proof plastic holder; all 50 that I received from the mint were not closed all the way. The other three options were fine. As far as getting them graded or not, odds say it’s not worth it on a small scale. The MS69’s and PF69’s go for around the same price as the original government packaging. The MS70’s and PF70’s have also come down some and can be bought for around $125-$165 each. The “Scientist” Proof is the most expensive in the 70 grade. I guess my point is if you want graded coins buy them already graded and save money.

[Beijim]

No slabs are airtight.

Tom,

 

NGC claims their current generation holders are hermetically sealed. The primary definition in my Webster's Collegiate for the word "hermetic" (as it applies to this context) is "airtight." I therefore don't understand your contention.

 

Beijim

[Beijim]

PCGS slabs aren't airtight??

To my knowledge, PCGS does not claim the seal on their holder is hermetic. Therefore, I conclude PCGS holders aren't airtight on the general principle that, were a product to exhibit a desirable feature, its manufacturer and/or marketer would trumpet it widely. Blow Gabriel, blow.

 

Please someone correct me if I'm mistaken!

 

Beijim

[WaxonWaxov]

I guess my point is if you want graded coins buy them already graded and save money.

 

OK, so If I look at a commemorative set still in it's mint packaging from 20 years ago and it looks very very good, should I submit the coins to be slabbed incase there's a 70 there?

 

so confusing.

 

Seems to me from Ebay, Heritage, and DLRC, that 70 slabbed coins go for much much more than 69 slabbed coins, which go for not much more than the original price.

 

The coins still in their original packaging are pretty, but I want my commemoratives to look brand-new thrity years from now. I made the mistake of leaving the early 1970s mint sets I bought in the early 80s in their mint packaging, now they look like [embarrassing lack of self control].

 

From what I've gathered, the values of modern commemoratives go as follows..

 

Least likely to retain value: slabbed MS/PF-69 (or below)

MIddle likely to retain value: coins in original mint packaging.

Most likely to retain value: Slabbed MS/PF-70 coins.

 

So if you submit a commemorative for grading and it's 69 or below, you've degraded it, but if it's 70 or higher, you've helped it.

 

Heres the Million Dollar Question: What exactly is the difference between 69 and 70?

 

Meanwhile, the Red Book only lists values up to 67! *bangs head on desk*

[MunkyMan95]

The only difference between 69 and 70 is 3 guy's opiions. The coins are exactly the same! Point blank, end of story. The only reason 70's command so much higher premiums is that if the modern coins were all 70's, the prices would be nothing above a raw coin. 69's and 70's, there's no difference!

[WaxonWaxov]

The only difference between 69 and 70 is 3 guy's opiions. The coins are exactly the same! Point blank, end of story. The only reason 70's command so much higher premiums is that if the modern coins were all 70's, the prices would be nothing above a raw coin. 69's and 70's, there's no difference!

 

**bangs head on desk some more**

 

[TomB]

SilverEagles95 is no doubt engaging in a certain level of hyperbole, but he really has a nugget of truth in the statement.

 

I don't participate in the ultra-modern market, but I generally agree with your analysis of value retention. The TPGs offer a pre-screening service to those users who will send in bulk submissions of same-type-same-date coinage where the TPG will cull out the coins that would be graded below a certain cutoff level and will only grade and slab those coins that are at or above the submitter-specified minimum grade. This is why you see so many sites with such large numbers of TPG certified modern coins in extremely high grades.

 

Therefore, companies like Heritage, Tulving, etc...that deal with enormous quantities of modern coinage will have someone skilled at grading this niche go through the coins and pick out those pieces likely to satisfy the bulk grading pre-screen criteria. Those in-house pre-screened pieces will then be sent to PCGS or NGC in the hope that the in-house grader was in tune with the TPG.

 

This works economically for both parties. The TPG receives a reduced rate for each coin that falls below the submitter-specified grade minimum, and that is returned raw, while they are paid the full price for those pieces that slab at or above that grade level. The submitter then does not have as much cash tied up in money losing grades and can sell the raw coins in bulk lots to other wholesalers.

 

As an example, Tulving might screen in-house 1250 of the new bullion Buffalo pieces and decide to send 1000 of them to PCGS with a grade minimum of MS69. PCGS may then give them 50 MS70 and 925 MS69 coins in slabs while returning 25 pieces raw without grade, but as below MS69. Tulving then makes a killing on the MS70 coins, breaks even or makes a few dollars each on the MS69 coins and absorbs the relatively small investment for the pre-screening on the coins that did not slab. They then sell these non-slabbed coins raw on their web site or move them through another wholesaler.

[WaxonWaxov]

Tom, you're the MAN!

 

God, talk about making it more clear.

 

One thing..... TPG.... please define

 

So If I understand, let's say it's April 2006 and I'm buying Proof Ben Franklin Silver Dollars.

 

I buy 50 of them for $1750. I then painstakingly look at all of them and pick the

nicest five and submit to NGC for grading with a minimum grade of PF-69.

 

They send me back 2 PF-70s, 2 PF-69's and one returned raw.

 

I then keep one PF-70 for my collection, sell the other for a big profit.

I sell the 2 PF-69s at a modest profit to people who probably just want them for the registry.

 

I sit on the other 46 for a year or so and then sell them as "still in mint packaging with certificate of authenticity! ooh aah!" for a modest profit over the original price knowing that there likely isn't anything great.

 

QUESTION: Would the coin that was submitted that was NOT PF-69 be returned in it's mint capsule, or must it be removed for grading and therefore be returned in a flip?

 

Another question: Does this theory mean that the coins you find nowadays still in mint packaging that are 10 years old are likely to have been picked over and therefore poop?

[zrlevin]

One thing..... TPG.... please define

 

Third Party Grading Service - A company like NGC or PCGS that grades and encapsulates coins.

 

QUESTION: Would the coin that was submitted that was NOT PF-69 be returned in it's mint capsule, or must it be removed for grading and therefore be returned in a flip?

 

It will be returned in a flip, and the capsule won't be returned.

 

Hope this helps,

Zach

[TomB]

Thank you!!!

 

TPG=Third Party Graders (PCGS or NGC)

 

Your scenario is pretty much dead-on except that I believe there is a minimum number of coins that must be submitted at one time for this service. I do not know the number of coins required, but it is likely 50 or more of the same pieces at a time.

 

If the coins in your plan were taken from Mint capsules, and not from Mint cellophane, then you could simply put the culled coins back in their capsules and legitimately offer them as still in the original Mint packaging.

 

In my opinion, this means that all of the relatively modern US Mint special issues from the last generation or so, whick are offered raw on large wholesaler websites that also carry large quantities of uber-slabbed pieces, are likely picked over ad nauseum.

[Brotherman]

This is one of those areas of the hobby that drive me nuts

 

Since MS69 and MS70 coins are exactly the same why pay a premium for MS70 coins?

What happened to the adage "Buy the coin not the plastic"? When you purchase an

MS70 coin you are buying the PLASTIC not the coin!

 

I don't collect these ultra-modern coins either, but if I did I would buy the MS69s and

laugh at the folks shelling out big bucks for MS70s. Why don't all collectors feel this way?

 

Hays

[MunkyMan95]

This is one of those areas of the hobby that drive me nuts

 

Since MS69 and MS70 coins are exactly the same why pay a premium for MS70 coins?

What happened to the adage "Buy the coin not the plastic"? When you purchase an

MS70 coin you are buying the PLASTIC not the coin!

 

I don't collect these ultra-modern coins either, but if I did I would buy the MS69s and

laugh at the folks shelling out big bucks for MS70s. Why don't all collectors feel this way?

 

Hays

 

I actually do buy MS69 coins versus 70. It's all the same to me.

[zrlevin]

 

I actually do buy MS69 coins versus 70. It's all the same to me.

 

Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zach

[WaxonWaxov]

 

ha ha ha

[MunkyMan95]

Well, that one came at a pretty cheap price for the grade... I bid last second (literally) and won.

[Brotherman]

Well, that one came at a pretty cheap price for the grade... I bid last second (literally) and won.

 

I didn't mean to point any fingers or imply that anyone should avoid MS70 coins.

I just wouldn't pay a premium for them. If you got that at a good price Chad, then

good for you.

 

Hays

[zrlevin]

Chad, you're sounding very hypocritical...

 

If 69 and 70 are actually the same grade, why would you bid on a PF70?

 

I'll tell you why. A 69 and a 70 are not the same. Just like a 68 and a 69 are not the same.

[MunkyMan95]

Chad, you're sounding very hypocritical...

 

If 69 and 70 are actually the same grade, why would you bid on a PF70?

 

I'll tell you why. A 69 and a 70 are not the same. Just like a 68 and a 69 are not the same.

 

I bid because I had $300 burning a hole in my pocket!!! 69 and 70 are the same, but I wasn't in the market for a California quarter, just happened upon that particular eBay auction.

[TomB]

I bid because I had $300 burning a hole in my pocket!!! 69 and 70 are the same, but I wasn't in the market for a California quarter, just happened upon that particular eBay auction.

Just how much did that coin cost?!?!?!?!?

[MunkyMan95]

it was only $26. I bought it and a whole bunch of other things off of eBay (shut up Hayden) and from my local coin shops around town.

[pendragon1998]

One thing..... TPG.... please define

 

WW, suggest you check out the Numismatic Glossary forum on this board.

[WaxonWaxov]

One thing..... TPG.... please define

 

WW, suggest you check out the Numismatic Glossary forum on this board.

 

right.

 

But if you ask me there are too many TLA's on this board.