Why don't many new posters/collectors respect...........

[truthteller]

the wisdom of the older, more mature posters/collectors. I have noticed this phenominon(sic) on coin forums and in the coin show arena. Some newbies want to learn fast, and the older collector/dealer just doesn't get respect. I miss dealers like Arnie Payne, Charlie Boyd, Bruce Amspacher, Bill Spears, who are no longer with us or active in the coin biz.

 

TRUTH

[GDJMSP]

There once was a teenager - 16 - who said his father was one of the dumbest men on earth. At 25 he said his father was getting smarter with age. At 50 he said his father was one of the wisest men he ever knew.

[PovertyRow]

Why don't many new posters/collectors respect

 

You could substitute many things for "posters/collectors" and still get the same answer!

 

Youth is sure of itself. Experience knows better!

[Wihlborg]

Truth,

 

Its just human nature I guess. It is rare to find someone new to something that is willing to admit that they don't know much about what ever it is they need to learn. Sure, if they are in a situation such as work where they need to be trained in something they have no choice but to admit that they don't know because otherwise they would not need to be trained. But in a situation where others may not know how much they know about something I think they are embarrassed to admit what they don't know.

 

In the long run people like that are only hurting themselves, because if they ever do learn correctly it usually takes much longer than if they were honest with themselves and seeked out the correct info from those who have the experience and knowledge to be able to help.

 

John

 

[fcloud-migration]

Respect is earned.

 

Some new people are too young to realize that many people with experience would love to help them and show them the hows and whys. Some people just want to learn on their own, and don't care if they make mistakes, becuase that is part of learning. Still other's (like myself) are located in an area where the only people that want to help you are the ones who want to help you out our your money.

[IrishMike]

The only difference between ages 20 and 40, is at 40 you finally realize you don't know everything and later on at 50 you start to forget what you learned.

 

Most of the guys that I used to buy coins from in the late 50's and 60's and learned much of what I know of coins are now collection coins up in the heavenly clouds. It's hard to replace their wisdom. They could set you straight without embarassing you or name calling. They were a kinder, gentler generation.

[MarkFeld]

Truth, I've given you a bit of a tough time lately and don't intend to do so now. But, I have a couple of questions for you:

 

1) What do you base your question on? I don't frequent this place much and am wondering if there were particular posts (and if so, what they were) that caused you to pose your question?

 

2) Do you think that respect should automatically be given to "older, more mature posters/collectors", rather than being earned?

[truthteller]

Mark,

 

I have sat behind the case at shows, many, many times. I don't tell anyone how to collect, merely provide sales and perspective. I have been around a long time. In the late 70's, collectors used to slowly but surely spend money on books and articles about collecting. Money was hard to come by, and the local older dealer at shop or at show knew that nurturing a young lad would help him along. Fastforward today. Many new coin collectors have a ton of money(compared to ancient times) to spend on coins. They don't buy the books. I see many younger collectors with $500-$1000 at one time to spend. With the money seems to come instant knowlege and I find less patience to learn, more willingness to spend, and much quicker burnout. As far as the posters are concerned, I think that is evident from many of the posts, on any forum. My perspective. Am I wrong? Would like to hear otherwise.

 

TRUTH

[Garneteye]

Older/ more mature does not equal wisdom; just age. Also a condesending attitude will often "turn off" the younger collector.

 

BTW I am closer to 60 than 50, but have found that advise is often better recieved if it is requested. Alas the youth of any age always has to learn some lessons the hard way!

 

Dan

[ldhair]

I feel in many cases the new posters/collectors don't know who they are dealing with.

How does he know the person that just posted has 40 or 50 years of experience?

What does he know about the person on the other side of the case?

30 years back I found myself behind the case on occasion and I was dumb as dirt.

It's hard to know who your talking with, in person or on a board. Time will earn their respect.

 

Just my opinion.

Larry

[DonHeath]

Truth,

 

I thought about your question for a bit before I responded. I think there really is a paradigm shift in the way information is obtained that has a direct effect on new collectors behavior. It affects more than just this hobby.

 

There was a time when one of the best and perhaps the only sources of information for most collectors was the gentleman behind the counter at the coin shop, who ironically was also a primary source of coins for his pupils. Some collectors joined local coin clubs, and there were occasional shows and periodicals, but most of the advice collectors received was from sellers. There were books, but most of the books available to the average collector were of limited usefulness, and were written for a broad audience with little more than general advice. The hobby was far more obtuse, and the learning curve much steeper. Mentoring was incredibly important and helpful.

 

The resurgence of the hobby coincided with the explosion of the internet. Suddenly voluminous information was available with a simple search query. As collectors, dealers, and specialists began posting their research and offering opinions, the mass of information overwhelmed most other resources. Add to that the advent of third-party. Suddenly optimistic dealer grading was subject to third-party scrutiny, nationwide auction results were available for compartive pricing and historical research, collectors were able to buy and sell nationally at nearer retail prices with little effort, and were able to buy from literally hundreds of sources. They became aware of bid and ask. Standards were dramatically refined in the MS range, and select BU and gem BU became antiquainted relics of another age. Buying habits, patterns, and opinions of many of the greatest collectors were analyzed in great depth, and became readily available to the average collector with a browser and a search engine. The hobby forever changed. Today's serious collector is better informed, and seeks less advice. They do their research and form opinions in ways they never did in the past. They learn grading from third-party grading services, and analyze prices realized to determine values. They question whether historical trends are relevant.

 

That said, having all the information in the world at your fingertips is no substitute for experience. Many attempt their own medical diagnosis based on similar symptoms they find on medical websites. That doesn't make them doctors. They are however better informed when they visit the doctor, and ask better questions. Reading all the symptom charts in the world is no substitute for professional medical care, and reading all the numismatic material in the world won't train you to recognize a whizzed coin, but it isn't the black art it once was.

 

Maybe thats a partial explaination for the collector with $500-$1000 to spend at the show who doesn't want much advice. I hope you don't think my answer disrespectful. I constantly seek advice, and value it highly.

[classicalman-migration]

Hello there, I am new here. The old saying that respect is earned not given applies here. Coin dealers overall, I would have to say, have gotten a "rep" somewhat similar to used car dealers. Not all are like that, granted, but the bad "few" can harm the hobby much more than the good can overcome in their helpfulness. Age does not confirm respect or great knowledge either. Then again, those who are a great source of information may not have the best "people" personality either, thus, a "newbie" who asks a question out of ignorance of the hobby, (not stupidity) may get turned off by the wise-acre who feels that this person is "beneath" his so called respect level by asking such a question.

 

Example: Newbie--"So why are these XXX coins better priced than these others that look the same?"

Wise-acre--" If you would read about luster and eye appeal you would know!"

 

Now if W-A would have said instead---"If you have a few minutes, let me explain, if not, here is a great source of information on pricing and collectability."

 

Or something like that, you can see that in the first reply, what has now been created is a disdain for collectors, dealers, etc, or anyone "in the know" because he felt the question wasted his time and/or was beneath his "vast knowledge". The second reply opens up the lines of communication for the newbie, giving him the option of either learning now by spending some short time with the dealer, collector, etc, or by obtaining the book or website or whatever was recommended reading for learning the answer to the newbie's question.

 

Just how I see it from a standpoint as a long time participant in shooting sports who answers a lot of "newbie" questions at shooting matches.

[truthteller]

Welcome classicalman. With the advent of the slab, newer dealers have also lost quite of bit of knowlege or at least booksmarts when it comes to US coins. I find the foreign coin dealers much more knowlegeable about their trade, history, facts, and , frankly, are more honest about the hobby as a hobby and are willing to teach the younger collector. US dealers tend to search for the money first, coin knowlege later. The slab has not always been a good thing.

 

TRUTH

[fcloud-migration]

classicalman,

 

Nice post for you first post!

 

**********************************************

 

[ldhair]

Well said classicalman.