Would you pay a $7650 premium for toning?

[Jazzy]

Just asking...

 

clicky-wicky

[relicsncoins]

Certainly not with all of the coin doctors out there.

 

JJ

[D.D.]

Not on that one. You can have that one Jassy.

[Morgannut]

No, I don't like nickels.

[pendragon1998]

"The obverse boasts brilliant crimson, orange, lime and sky blue iridescence throughout"

 

No, but it does give me the sudden craving to drink a tequila on a dock in Key Largo while I watch the sunset.

[Bruceswar]

For the right person that coin is A stunner... too high for me but I like the coin

[MikeInFL]

If the coin were fairly priced, accurately graded, and as attractive as advertised, you think it would have sold by now. After all, the toned coin market is anything but cold.

 

That being said, and if those photos are accurate, this coin smacks of AT to my eyes (or said another way, is not a no-brainer NT coin), and is a common as dirt coin in lower grades (22,000+ certified by NGC). This combination always makes me extremely nervous when considering a purchase, and this is no exception. To make matters worse, this coin is $300 at best without the toning.

 

I have (what I consider) a very nicely and 100% naturally toned MS 66 that cost me $90. While it is not anywhere as crazily toned as the above coin, the price on that coin, in comparison, is simply out of line. Then again, I just have trouble with 10x or 20x bid premiums for toning on common coins, yet they still sell, so what do I know?!?

 

Take care....Mike

[James_OldeTowne]

I don't know, but that toning looks completely fake and artificial to me. Even if it is real, I wouldn't pay any kind of premium at all for that. On the contrary, I'd discount that coin.

 

James

[TomB]

In my opinion it appears to me that the gamma and color saturation are boosted too much on this coin. The other coins on this site suffer from the same fate.

 

If I am interpreting this coin correctly then I think it is natural toning as these 1938-D nickels can take on a very attractive coloration eerily similar to MikeInFL's 1936 satin proof Buffalo. In fact, several years ago I bought a raw 1938-D Buffalo with quite similar colors to Mike's coin and it now resides in a PCGS MS67 holder. I believe the coin in this thread, in-hand, would look quite similar to Mike's nickel and to mine.

 

By the way, if I am interpreting the coin correctly, it is worth nowhere near the premium, to me, that is being asked for it.

[Gembeeyou]

I might go as high as $7625., but $7650?...NO WAY!!

[Mozin]

I would not want this coin.

[kryptonitecomics]

If I had the cash....maybe...I love the coin and I have little doubt it is NT as a lot of my friends including Mike have said it's legit in hand which is good enough for me when you consider all of the combined years of experience we are talking about. I can't blame a lot of folks for not wanting to step up and pay that type of premium for a common date coin, but the color is certainly anything but common and in my opinion warrants a substantial premium. What the right premium is who knows.......the market decides these things and even Mike said he was nuts for paying what he did to acquire the piece but......

 

The same could be said for the best of the Battle Creek Morgan's and Mike was crazy like a fox in practically cornering the market on the top pieces. The bottom line is that it take some guts to step up to the plate with pieces like this.......those that don't live the life of A+ quality toned coins but prefer to concentrate on Paper grades and price guide values will never know the freedom that comes along with simply looking at a coin, deciding you have to have it, and shelling out what ever it take to get it. I am not labeling the folks on these boards as I know we have all types with all types of budgets and certainly more than a few that like attractively toned pieces. I am just saying that just because you personally don't believe in paying XXX premium doesn't make the coin a bad buy...it's just not for you and clearly the market has spoken and said loud and clear that monster color + exquisite eye appeal equals large premiums. You don't have to be sailing on that same ship as we all have our own destinations to arrive at but to fire salvos at that ship because it's going in a different direction is not what this hobby is all about.

 

I just think folks need to stop and consider that we all have different passions in this hobby. Heck imagine for a second that your a toned coin lover or toned coin dealers these days and because the market is hot you are persecuted on an almost daily basis, everyone screaming AT on anything but a mint toned Franklin half, everyone saying your ripping folks off because you are asking 50X grey sheet? A lot of Folks have effectively moved away from modern bashing and have joined the crusade to squash AT coins and run the bad dealer out of town. The problem is that a lot of good coins and good dealers reputations are being damaged in the process. Just because a coin as interesting and exhibits possibly unique toning does not by design make it AT. Should folks proceed with caution and take a closer look, get second opinions, YES but to scream AT to anyone who will listen just doesn't work for me.

 

Let's be responsible with the message we are sending out to new collectors, let's use a message based on knowledge, experience, and facts and not disseminate a message based solely on our own dislikes, fears, and circulating misinformation.

 

Sorry I am off the soap box now....I just ask that you consider what I have said here and not take my message as a means for me to try to sway your opinions on this coin or any other.

[James_OldeTowne]

I didn't even pause to think that the image itself may be responsible for the awful color. If the actual coin in hand is a lot less "monstrous", then it could be worth a premium, even a significant premium. But at most, we're talking about 2X the value, not 50X the value.

 

James

[kryptonitecomics]

I didn't even pause to think that the image itself may be responsible for the awful color. If the actual coin in hand is a lot less "monstrous", then it could be worth a premium, even a significant premium. But at most, we're talking about 2X the value, not 50X the value.

 

James

 

You keep saying that but I know you do a lot of Ebaying like me so I am pretty confident that you know all to well that if that coin was thrown on Ebay the market would decide it was worth a lot more than 2X guide so I am confused by your denial, if you will, as to the true market value of said coin. Remember above I advised that we should not be sending a message based based on our own personal dislikes?

 

The fact that you personally don't feel that it's worth more than 2X guide (in your opinion) does not have any bearing on the current market and I have always been told that a coin is only worth what someone is will to pay for it. Maybe that number isn't $7,000 but surely you don't have any illusions that if put in an auction that this coin would only realize 2X sheet?

 

Again.....don't pay the premium if your not comfortable with it.....your not wrong in that regard.....but lets have a legitimate discussion about the true value of a coin like this

[Hoot]

Just asking...

 

No.

 

Hoot

[James_OldeTowne]

Having looked at the item description a little more closely, I've discovered that the coin was graded MS-67, which I didn't realize at the time of my previous comments. Since I really don't know what an MS-67 is worth, I really don't know how many multiples the price represents. But still, there is simply no way I'd pay the asking price for that coin, especially based on the given image!

 

((( if that coin was thrown on Ebay the market would decide it was worth a lot more than 2X guide )))

 

Kryptonite, I'm just saying that to me personally, the coin's worth a 2X premium. I'd be willing to pay double for it, but no more - and that's assuming the image is in fact not accurate (ie. the coin looks much better). Other collectors might well pay more. Please realize that Jazzy's original question - "Would you pay a $7650 premium for toning?" (my emphasis) - sounded to me like it was seeking individual opinion, which is what I gave.

 

I DO agree with you that the overall market will value this coin at more than my personal 2X opinion, probably much more!

 

I'm also certain that there are many coins on the market that I would pay a 10X premium for, but that you would value at only 2X. It just reflects our different values and opinions.

 

James

[kryptonitecomics]

Ok...I gotcha James.....fair enough......It just looked like to me that you were stating the coin was only worth 2X what a similar graded coin would be worth......I didn't realize that you were simply responding to Jazzys initial question...sorry

[chinook]

James,

 

An untoned example would cost about 200-225. Personally I would go about 2-3x if I thought the coin was exceptional in hand. Just like common date toned Morgans, I really dont see where the 100x+ multiples are warranted.

[James_OldeTowne]

Let me be annoying for just a moment !

 

Using chinook's numbers, let's assume the base value of the coin is $215. At the asking price of $7950:

 

premium is 7950 - 215 = 7735

 

So the percent premium is 7735 / 215 = 3600%

 

In terms of multiples, it's a 36X premium.

 

Math is exciting, isn't it ?

 

James

[kryptonitecomics]

36X wouldn't even get you in the ballpark with some of the top BC's but I must admit that with Morgans.....I believe the most I have paid is probably around 15X-20X.....now some of those Pretty mint set toned toned Lincoln pennies.......the multipiers can be crazy......

 

 

Most times I can get away with a 3X-6X sheet for the toners in my cross hairs

[coingame2000-migration]

I paid $7,000 for this coin because it's the most amazing Buffalo nickel I have ever seen (and I've been buying and selling "original" monster toned coins for more than thirty years now). Moreover, it's undergraded in its present holder -- REALLY!!! I'm quite confident that I'll get it into a MS68 holder eventually(a sentiment shared by a number of my peers). But even if it doesn't upgrade, I'm still tickled to own it and never really expect it to sell on my website anyway (it's there for decoration and a fine ornament it is).

 

Mikey

 

NUMISMATIC ENTERPRISES

[Jazzy]

Hey Mikey, nice to make your acquaintance

 

I didn't imply any disparagement by my original post.

 

It's just always interesting to see where collectors fall on the toning/premium issue.

 

I personally wouldn't have paid that much for the coin, but I am of the opinion that if you like something and can afford it, you should just buy it.

 

Hell, I'm paying off a luxury car and swimming pool.

[James_OldeTowne]

Hi Mikey, and Welcome to our friendly little neighborhood! Have you been lurking for long ? Just wondering whether someone may have invited you over to our street.

 

Personally, I wouldn't have bought the coin in question for anything near that price -it just doesn't appeal to me. But if it's worth what you paid to you, then the reality is that you got the deal of a lifetime. Congratulations!

 

On a technical note, I'd be curious as to whether the image coloration matches the coin in hand. We all know that imaging can be quite different from how a coin truly looks.

 

I hope you'll plan to stay awhile, and look forward to learning from you!

 

James

[kryptonitecomics]

Just so there are no secrets...Mikey is a friend of mine and I sent him a link so he could come and speak on behalf of the coin or provide answers to possible questions. Frankly this thread hasn't been a flame fest like some of the other recent threads across multiple forums but I thought we might all benefit from his insight on this coin and 30+ years of toned coins experience

[coingame2000-migration]

Hi Mikey, and Welcome to our friendly little neighborhood! Have you been lurking for long ? Just wondering whether someone may have invited you over to our street.

 

Personally, I wouldn't have bought the coin in question for anything near that price -it just doesn't appeal to me. But if it's worth what you paid to you, then the reality is that you got the deal of a lifetime. Congratulations!

 

On a technical note, I'd be curious as to whether the image coloration matches the coin in hand. We all know that imaging can be quite different from how a coin truly looks.

 

I hope you'll plan to stay awhile, and look forward to learning from you!

 

James

 

Thanks for the welcome and I do plan to hang around. In regard to your question about the image -- the coin is a bit different in hand. I'm not 100% satisfied with it and it is the only coin on my site that wasn't imaged by my wife so I think I'd better give her a shot at it. My written description paints a much more accurate word picture of the coin and does differ from the image somewhat. The coin is extremely cool in hand and the "collector" in me just couldn't resist. I know, after 30+ years as a full time dealer you'd think I would have kicked the addiction by now (or at least got it under somewhat control).

 

Mikey

[coingame2000-migration]

Just so there are no secrets...Mikey is a friend of mine and I sent him a link so he could come and speak on behalf of the coin or provide answers to possible questions. Frankly this thread hasn't been a flame fest like some of the other recent threads across multiple forums but I thought we might all benefit from his insight on this coin and 30+ years of toned coins experience

 

Thanks Shane

 

Mikey

 

NUMISMATIC ENTERPRISES

[IGWT]

Hi & welcome, Mikey.

 

I paid $7,000 for this coin because it's the most amazing Buffalo nickel I have ever seen . . . .

 

We all have our weaknesses.

 

Just so there are no secrets...Mikey is a friend of mine . . . .

 

Shane has friends?

 

Frankly this thread hasn't been a flame fest like some of the other recent threads across multiple forums . . . .

 

I'm always the last to know . . . what did I miss? We usually find room for enlightening disagreement -- e.g., the 1c 1888/7 discussion -- while keeping things friendly.

 

 

[kryptonitecomics]

Well when you consider the last two major threads across the street talking about NGC graded Peace dollars.... we all know there was a lot of bashing going on and dragging dealers through the mud when it certainly wasn't warranted for the most part. I am not saying that everyone envolved was wrong, simply stating that threads like that tend to be negative and very one sided in most cases.

 

I am a member of 4 or 5 coin forums and over the past 3-months or so there has just been a ton of negativity about toned coins so after a while one gets a little sensitve about their passions and having to constantly defend the money spent these days for rainbow beautys. I think you all know where I am coming from and I don't try to make anyone like toned coins, but I do try to get folks to understand that we all have different likes and to persuade them to be considerate of others rather than posting disparaging remarks about others passions.

 

I don't collect Moderns or 20 cent pieces or 3 cent nickels because they aren't my cup of tea but I am very carfeul about jumping into a thread and saying that 3 cent Nickels are ugly or overpriced etc......I just use a little tact and common sense and try to focus on the positives in each series.

[CTcollector]

Well when you consider the last two major threads across the street talking about NGC graded Peace dollars.... we all know there was a lot of bashing going on and dragging dealers through the mud when it certainly wasn't warranted for the most part. I am not saying that everyone envolved was wrong, simply stating that threads like that tend to be negative and very one sided in most cases.

 

I am a member of 4 or 5 coin forums and over the past 3-months or so there has just been a ton of negativity about toned coins so after a while one gets a little sensitve about their passions and having to constantly defend the money spent these days for rainbow beautys. I think you all know where I am coming from and I don't try to make anyone like toned coins, but I do try to get folks to understand that we all have different likes and to persuade them to be considerate of others rather than posting disparaging remarks about others passions.

 

I don't collect Moderns or 20 cent pieces or 3 cent nickels because they aren't my cup of tea but I am very carfeul about jumping into a thread and saying that 3 cent Nickels are ugly or overpriced etc......I just use a little tact and common sense and try to focus on the positives in each series.

 

Krypto - you were going so good until you brought up PEACEGATE I & II.

[kryptonitecomics]

Those threads were full of negativity........you don't have to agree or disagree on the AT vs NT discussion to agree with that. That was the only point I was trying to get across not that folks should have sided one way or the other...I just think it could have been handled better but this is typically the way things play out across the street.....sorry I post there too but the mob is fickle and they crave blood from time to time