'82S Morgan - Opinions Please!

[cpm9ball]

 

Does anyone know what may have caused this? I don't know if you can see it, but the metal appears to have been "pushed up" on top of the northern points of the stars.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

 

Let's see if this is a better picture.

 

Chris

[zrlevin]

I have a 1882S NGC64 morgan that looks identical. I have no dea what caused it, however.

 

Zach

[cpm9ball]

Zach, this coin has die chips between the loops of both 8's to the left and right; there is doubling on the left side of the upper loop of the second 8, and the "S" mintmark is tilted far left. The VAM book does not identify all of these attributes on one coin. What about yours?

 

I realize that the toning on this coin looks funky to some and is, in all likelihood, AT. Note how there appear to be "white shadows" of exposed metal on the outer edges of the stars, date and "E(dot)PL". Still, I think it is interesting.

 

By the way, James, if you are looking in, it reminds me of those you have that I just love!

 

Chris

[zrlevin]

My S is straight and I don't notice anything weird in the date, but I have the white shadows like you, in the same places.

 

I wonder what caused them.

 

Zach

[RGT]

I realize that the toning on this coin looks funky to some and is, in all likelihood, AT. Note how there appear to be "white shadows" of exposed metal on the outer edges of the stars, date and "E(dot)PL". Still, I think it is interesting.

 

I believe that toning is NT, thumb prints and all. I have read that those "white shadows" are a sure sign of NT and are near impossible to duplicate artificially.

 

Of course, I've already been exposed in the "What you need to know" thread as knowing nothing about NT/AT.

[Die Varieties]

 

Does anyone know what may have caused this? I don't know if you can see it, but the metal appears to have been "pushed up" on top of the northern points of the stars.

 

Chris

 

I'm not the Morgan expert, but to me it has a look of what we call "flat-field doubling" in where the metal on the field with direct relationship to the devices, lettering, date moves inward. This happens during the striking process with a die bounce. Alan Herbert describes it in his book, A Price Guide to Mint Errors very similar to the way your coin looks in your pics. But again, I'm not sure so hopefully a Morgan expert will chime in.

[cpm9ball]

I just checked Herbert's "Guide", and I don't think it is Flat Field Doubling. According to Alan, flat field doubling is defined as: A coin (usually a proof) which was struck normally and was struck a second time while still in the collar, with die bounce or chatter damaging the design after the first strike, the second strike driving the displaced metal into the field, showing on the struck coin as a hazy, greatly enlarged, and irregular outline of the design element on the surface of the surrounding field.

 

I realize my picture is not that good, but the metal is on top of the stars.

 

If it is really NT, would someone please ring the doorbell. I sure would like to know what may have caused this to turn such a beautiful golden tone.

 

Chris

[Die Varieties]

I just checked Herbert's "Guide", and I don't think it is Flat Field Doubling. According to Alan, flat field doubling is defined as: A coin (usually a proof) which was struck normally and was struck a second time while still in the collar, with die bounce or chatter damaging the design after the first strike, the second strike driving the displaced metal into the field, showing on the struck coin as a hazy, greatly enlarged, and irregular outline of the design element on the surface of the surrounding field.

 

I realize my picture is not that good, but the metal is on top of the stars.

 

If it is really NT, would someone please ring the doorbell. I sure would like to know what may have caused this to turn such a beautiful golden tone.

 

Chris

 

OK.

 

I think I will take a stroll out of the neighborhood.

[cpm9ball]

OK.

 

I think I will take a stroll out of the neighborhood.

 

Aw, c'mon Billy! You're always welcome in my house and the bar is self-service.

 

Chris

[physics-fan3.14]

I'm not going to embarass myself by hazarding a guess on the toning, or any possible VAMs. However, I'm not sure that Billy wasn't on the right track. It looks like, if I am looking at the right thing, and your description sounds like Machine doubling or strike doubling. This causes a flat displaced area, but also quite often pushes metal up onto the devices, giving them a raised look. I have several coins in my possession that exhibit this, it is quite common.

[TJ'S Coins]

The white spots in toning around the stars and devices are generally a sign of natural toning. Something alters the metal in the striking at these points so that toning does not develop there as in other places.

[zrlevin]

But mine is blast white...What does that mean?

[cpm9ball]

But mine is blast white...What does that mean?

 

C H R I S

[RGT]

But mine is blast white...What does that mean?

 

That could mean a couple of things.

 

1. It hasn't toned.

 

-OR-

 

2. It's been dipped.

 

 

Any more questions?

[zrlevin]

But mine is blast white...What does that mean?

 

That could mean a couple of things.

 

1. It hasn't toned.

 

-OR-

 

2. It's been dipped.

 

 

Any more questions?

 

I meant in reference to the shadows, but thanks for the insight.

 

Zach

[RGT]

Here's a thread from across the street that may provide some more insight into these shadows. Sorry, it's about toned coins, not white ones. The white ones don't have the shadows.

 

Toning

[zrlevin]

cool, thanks for the link!