Seated Lib Quandry

[Oldtrader3]

I purchased a MS 1960-P, SL Dime from a collector/dealer whom I trust and was then submitted to NGC for grading. The coin had been cracked out of an ANACS holder (graded MS) when I purchased it. NGC BB'ed the dime for artificial toning which concerns me because the coin's surfaces fooled two people who are very familiar with the series. The coin is posted here for comment.

Anyhow, I resubmitted the coin to NCS for conservation and regrading. I am curious to see what it will look like when it returns.

[zrlevin]

I sure hope it's not AT, I have an 1883 that looks almost Identical. (A bad pic of it is my Avatar) It is one of my favorite coins.

 

Zach

[Jazzy]

Unfortunately, the vast majority of Seated coins have been dipped.

 

Dipping was just de riguer in the hobby for so many years.

 

That one looks like it has decades of album retoning on it.

 

Maybe it doesn't have an original skin, but calling it AT is perhaps going too far.

[EZ_E]

I'm sorry, Charlie. It seems that there is now an AT paranoia at NGC, et al.

[TomB]

It's really tough to see what the colors of the coin are in that image. If you did not agree with the opinion given by NGC perhaps you should have avoided a trip to NCS.

[Grumps]

I'm sorry, Charlie. It seems that there is now an AT paranoia at NGC, et al.

 

I'm living under this fear at the moment. I have a beautiful set of Jefferson War Nickels that has been in my family for years. When my uncle was in his early years he put them in a Capitol holder and they have remained there until I removed them from the holder not long ago. None of the coins are heavily toned, but they are all beautiful and natural. I'm expecting many of them to grade as high as MS67/68 possibly. With all the paranoia over NT vs AT here lately, I've just got this fear the few I've submitted so far are going to come back in body bags and if they do, I'm going to be so mad! How do you fight something like that when you can prove that it occurred through a natural process and someone tells you it's artificial? Not to mention the grading fees you're out!

 

Greg

[Jazzy]

Hey, I've got one of those.

 

Never thought of sending the coins in though. I rather like the Capitol holder.

 

[Grumps]

Hey, I've got one of those.

 

Never thought of sending the coins in though. I rather like the Capitol holder.

 

 

Leave it in the holder about 25 years. All the coins will have a beautiful natural toning, not to heavy with a rainbow of color. I can't wait to see how my little monsters come back. I can't thank my uncle enough for being thoughtful enough to put the coins in there and then pass them on to me later in life.

 

Greg

[Hoot]

I'm sorry, Charlie. It seems that there is now an AT paranoia at NGC, et al.

 

This is true. I've heard of several such complaints and have one of my own. I recently received grades on four very notable nickels and a half dime. Two were war nickels that in the recent past would have garnered MS66 or 67 grades with star designations. One graded 66 and the other (more toned) piece graded 64, which is patently absurd. A gorgeous 1926 buffalo nickel, that I expected an MS66 or MS66* grade on, with thick, original toning (I've had it for years) graded MS65. The most immaculate and one of the prettiest Jefferson nickels I've ever had - a 1954-S - graded MS65. This is the first Jeff I've ever had that I thought was MS68. The toning is targeted and the luster is unreal - absolutely immaculate surfaces. The "problem" with each of these coins was (is?) toning. None suffer from a lack of luster or bad hits. I will crack them all and submit them (along with others) to services that are not afraid of their mistakes and are willing to be consistent in the face of their competition.

 

The half dime is one of the rare, thickly toned pieces that has not been messed with. The toning is very dark and deep, and obviously subtended by an ample amount of luster. It's an 1841 piece that I thought would go well in my transitional set. It even has a trace of a fingerprint on the obverse. I'd grade it AU62. Anyhow, it got BB'd for AT, which is about as absurd as I've ever seen.

 

None of these coins is particularly valuable. I was holdering them to include them in my registry sets, which are far from #1 in their categories. I only like participating in order to take part in what I consider a great hobby in a way that is fun and easy.

 

The "paranoia," I would guess, is more of a silly reaction to some bad press than it is to potential financial repercussions for holdering a few AT coins that sell for stupid money. And insofar as I can tell, the current grade penalties, that are an obvious reaction to PCGS "tightening up," are the pony following the cart. These matters do nothing to benefit collectors, especially in a time where consistency was NGC's best strength. And to deny it (which has been done) is artifice in the face of an audience who has watched closely the evolution of events.

 

No doubt, the pendulum will swing back again, but I just hope this time that someone (at NGC and PCGS) has the foresight and skill to stop it in the middle.

 

Hoot

[EZ_E]

That's terrible, Hoot. Where is the consistency promised when TPGS's were initially founded? It seems that even after 20 years not much ground has been gained or knowledge grown.

[mhardin2413]

having been a sl dime specialist for quite a while, i have seen gazillions (ok, maybe a few thousand), yours looks great, although maybe a bit too good. can't really tell with this scan. anyway, i agree with the person who thought the trip to ncs might have been premature. i think i would have sent it to pcgs and seen what they said. then, if both ngc and pcgs agree, ncs might have been the next step. but that's my ten cents.

pretty dime on a tough date to find.

i hope the shine is real.

[Oldtrader3]

Hoot: I sent in a 1945-P Nickel that has very pretty streaked gold toning. NGC no graded it because they felt it was AT. They reholdered it in the original ANACS holder as MS67FS.

[James_OldeTowne]

I can't believe that coin got bagged - silly of NGC! I would guess it has been dipped or lightly cleaned and allowed to retone, but so what? I just hope NGC hasn't become overly cautious about coins like this. There's also not a huge amount of financial risk here, is there? I would think it's worth about $250 or so.... maybe just leave it free for awhile?

 

James