Collecting proof and mint sets. WHY???????????????????????

[EZ_E]

Mike,

I'm definitely saving the silver premium sets but I think that I'll pass on the prestige sets since I plan on acquiring all of the modern dollar commemoratives at some point. I don't want them slabbed. Just want them to be housed in my Eagle album which displays silver-dollar sized coins very nicely. Maybe moderns are just a fad but they are tomorrows goodies.

[carterhaines-migration]

I have only been watching silver proofs for the past year, and have only been able to watch the progress of the 2002 silver set after it sold out from the mint. Despite other sets current prices, I was wondering if the other silver proofs (99,00,01) also jumped a decent amount after they sold out from the mint.

[cladking]

Maybe moderns are just a fad but they are tomorrows goodies.

 

I don't believe the collecting of high grade moderns is a fad but only time will tell. However, the collecting of moderns can not possibly be a fad for two very important reasons. Most importantly because they are still not widely collected. To be a fad something must be popular and except for the large number of people collecting current (and obsolete) coin from pocket change there is very little trading in these coins. We talk about moderns as being "new" coins made since 1965, but the oldest are now coming up on 38 years old! At the height of the circulation finds era in 1960 many of the most desirable coins were less than 38 years old and people eagerly sought singles and BU rolls of such coins and considered them old. Now even older coins are considered new. It's a matter of perspective and the new collectors do not have the same perspective.

 

Tempus Fugit.

[msmhappy]

 

Victor, dont wait too long to add prestige sets to your collection!! Mintage is very low for these sets and are becoming very difficult to aquire, especially in their original deluxe government packageing!!!!!!!!!!

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GDJMSP]

victoreasley -

 

A comment about the original packaging. Check & see what any of the earlier original Mint Sets like the '49, '52, '53 etc. sell for. Then check what those same sets sell for in Captiol Holders.

[EZ_E]

Very good point about the old packaging.

 

I had thought that modern commemoratives were a hot item right now but, then again, my info came from Robert Chambers, the "Coin Vault" guy. He just said over the weekend that a ms 60 LaFayette dollar sells for $2000. Man, that guy sure is full of .... misinformation. But, hey, the show is entertaining even though it's very pricey.

 

p.s. Why doesn't this forum notify a person via e-mail anymore when there is a reply to one's post?

 

p.p.s. The appropriate box is checked.

[Beijim]

Admittedly , but:

 

I love watching (not buying from) the Coin Vault guy. I just have to figure out how to get him to stop saying "irregardless" and "I don't care to tell you Xxx" (meaning it doesn't bother him to disclose Xxx) without hurting his feelings.

 

He's pretty knowledgeable and articulate, so when he blurted those out over the weekend, I nearly fell the full 1 1/2 feet from the sofa to the floor. At least "I don't care to tell you..." is likely just a colloquialism rather than a non-word.

 

Beijim

 

[Leothelion]

victor,

 

Proof singles are in demand!!! collectors want then slabed with the ultimate grade of PR70. Which carries an ulitmate price for the seller!!

 

As far as the surging prices of silver sets?? Thats a tough one to answer! There are many factors involved:

 

Low mintage is one! The more sets that are broken up, the more valuable complete sets become.

 

Singles! Collectors want singles that are slabed!!

 

Newbees!! With more and more people every day being exposed to nusimatics, the more will be purchased. A large part of our population has no idea about what the mint produces. And most new collectors are facinated by slabed coins in the ultimate grade of 70!!!!!! And dealers know it!!!!!!!!!

 

 

mike

 

Hi Mike

I'm a little confused here. What's generating the surge in prices for the slabbed

MS70 coins?

 

Leo

[msmhappy]

victor,

 

Proof singles are in demand!!! collectors want then slabed with the ultimate grade of PR70. Which carries an ulitmate price for the seller!!

 

As far as the surging prices of silver sets?? Thats a tough one to answer! There are many factors involved:

 

Low mintage is one! The more sets that are broken up, the more valuable complete sets become.

 

Singles! Collectors want singles that are slabed!!

 

Newbees!! With more and more people every day being exposed to nusimatics, the more will be purchased. A large part of our population has no idea about what the mint produces. And most new collectors are facinated by slabed coins in the ultimate grade of 70!!!!!! And dealers know it!!!!!!!!!

 

 

mike

 

Hi Mike

I'm a little confused here. What's generating the surge in prices for the slabbed

MS70 coins?

 

Leo

 

 

Leo, You gave me an easy question, yet, a difficult question. but here goes...

 

PERFECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Should say a lot in its self..

 

Third party gradeing is, well, in demand!! Your coin is guaranted to be a certain grade, GUARANTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No if, ands, or buts about it! If you have a raw coin in uncirculated condition, send it in to be graded thinking its just a so so coin, but, it comes back to you in a specific MS grade, then you'd think WOW!!! This coin now a certain grade of mint state, and graded by professionals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Modern proofs are an example of the drive for perfection. They are made with the intent of being perfect.!!!!!! Which brings us to the grade of MS70; THE UNTIMATE GRADE!!!!!!!

 

Its supply and demand!!! To posses a coin that is absolutly perfect in every way is difficult to come by, thus, quantities are low, in return makes PRICES HIGH!!!

Collectors want perfection!! THE PERFECT COIN!!!!!!!!

 

Collectors are buying them up as soon as they hit the market. Just to have the PERFECT COIN IN THIER COLLECTION!!!!!!!!!!!

 

amazing huh!!

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[gmarguli]

I'll admit that I don't like proof sets. I especially don't like really modern proof sets. The coins are flat, lifeless, and overall bland. Every coin looks the same. Sure you can put a bunch in a slab at different grades, but they still look the same. Where is the hunt in collecting if every coin is the same? The fun of searching for that UCAM Franklin is gone. They're all UCAM now!

 

Some sets are OK, like the 1936-1942 sets. The Walkers and Mercurys look nice in proof. I think proof Buffalos look nice. I also like the look of matte/sandblast proofs. I think those have great character. I'd love to get some of these proofs for the gold series.

 

However, I'll take a nice mint state coin over a proof any day. There is just something "wrong" with collecting modern proofs. It's sanitized collecting. They are all super prepared and handled with kid gloves and put in protective packaging. I like the idea that a mint state coin made it thru all the odds and survived in pristine condition, rather than a specially handled proof. It's kind of like rooting for the underdog.

 

For the most part I would always take a nice mint state coin over a proof. There are exceptions. Most of the proof coins that I have owned over the years have had history. A nice proof large cent. I forget the mintage - something like 100. A lightly circ BMP 20¢. Also some of the usual stuff, like proof Mercs, Walkers, and Buffalos because I kind of like the look. However, there is no way I'd take a set of proofs over a mint state set.

[gmarguli]

A comment about the original packaging. Check & see what any of the earlier original Mint Sets like the '49, '52, '53 etc. sell for. Then check what those same sets sell for in Captiol Holders.

 

The value isn't all in the packaging. Much of that premium is due to the gamble that there will be some nice coins in the set. Everyone thinks that they are going to find something special. That MS67FBL Franklin or that MS68 Washington. They don't realize that most have been picked over a dozen times and all the good coins are gone.

 

If the value was in the packaging, then I should be able to sell this packaging for $100 on eBay for a common set. I bet I wouldn't get $20 for it. Maybe I'll try it. I've got several of the empty packaging right now.

 

[gmarguli]

I love watching (not buying from) the Coin Vault guy. I just have to figure out how to get him to stop saying "irregardless" and "I don't care to tell you Xxx" (meaning it doesn't bother him to disclose Xxx) without hurting his feelings.

 

He's pretty knowledgeable and articulate, so when he blurted those out over the weekend, I nearly fell the full 1 1/2 feet from the sofa to the floor. At least "I don't care to tell you..." is likely just a colloquialism rather than a non-word.

 

What's wrong with "irregardless"? It's in the dictionary. It's a word. It's a useless word used by less educated people, but it is a word.

[Beijim]

Greg,

 

 

I don't have a copy of the Oxford English handy, which would be my preferred authority, but I did a quick lookup on www.dictionary.com. Technically, you're correct - irregardless appears as an entry in that dictionary, therefore it's a word. However, the only reason it appears at all is that so many people use the abysmal construct. In other words, it's there to document common usage, as are many nonstandard slang word entries.

 

There are two preexisting words, irrespective and regardless, that serve their intended purposes perfectly. Irregardless is one of those abominations that results when folks try to use big words without quite having the vocabulary, so they simply make it up. While I appreciate this is how Bill Shakespeare, among others, assisted in populating the dictionary we enjoy today, I suspect most would concur that his output more than justifies the contributions.

 

But don't take my word for it. Here's what the www.dictionary.com entry says:

 

 

Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.

 

Merriam-Webster is less harsh and asserts that irregardless is a (nonstandard) word in speech.

 

Irregardless , most people who want to speak English well avoid this word. You'll seldom find it in written prose.

 

Beijim

 

[gmarguli]

 

There are two preexisting words, irrespective and regardless, that serve their intended purposes perfectly. Irregardless is one of those abominations that results when folks try to use big words without quite having the vocabulary, so they simply make it up. While I appreciate this is how Bill Shakespeare, among others, assisted in populating the dictionary we enjoy today, I suspect most would concur that his output more than justifies the contributions.

 

Would you be OK with irregardless if Shakespeare had been the one to "invent" it?

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand the history of this word. I've never used it. It's a word that doesn't make much sense and I fully agree that the people who use it are people who either have a limited vocabulary, aren't necessarily well educated, or heard it somewhere and just picked it up without thinking about it.

 

Still, I remember during high school (not THAT long ago) when the teachers would get all snooty when the "word" ain't was used. We were told it wasn't a real word. One day to shut one of the most pompous teachers up, I showed him it was in the dictionary. I suggested he inform Webster's that they put a fake word in the dictionary. (The teacher never liked me for some reason).

 

I feel that if a word is used and understood, then it is a real word. It might be looked down on, but it is a word.

 

Now if we could only get people to learn the difference between wont and won't.

 

Now, I say we make 'alot' a word. So many people spell it that way we might as well add this variation of the spelling. And I'll admit, I sometimes have to catch myself was I use the non-word unknowledgeable instead of not knowledgeable.

 

 

[Beijim]

Greg,

 

If we're ever at the same numismatic event, we should sit down over a beer and rewrite the dictionary to our mutual liking .

 

You can have alot, wont, and won't.

 

I'll add a discussion of the difference between its and it's, along with entries for dis ("this") and dis ("disrespect", v.t., slang), among others.

 

Irregardless of the fact that irregardless is a word, let me be blunt. Using it makes a person sound ignorant. I once heard Bill Gates say it. Irregardless, it always makes me wonder about an otherwise intelligent speaker.

 

And for the record, I collect proof sets.

 

Beijim

 

[msmhappy]

 

GDJMSP, Are you saying the holder is worth more than its contents????

 

I DONT THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But the capitol holders do look nice..

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Leothelion]

victor,

 

Proof singles are in demand!!! collectors want then slabed with the ultimate grade of PR70. Which carries an ulitmate price for the seller!!

 

As far as the surging prices of silver sets?? Thats a tough one to answer! There are many factors involved:

 

Low mintage is one! The more sets that are broken up, the more valuable complete sets become.

 

Singles! Collectors want singles that are slabed!!

 

Newbees!! With more and more people every day being exposed to nusimatics, the more will be purchased. A large part of our population has no idea about what the mint produces. And most new collectors are facinated by slabed coins in the ultimate grade of 70!!!!!! And dealers know it!!!!!!!!!

 

 

mike

 

Hi Mike

I'm a little confused here. What's generating the surge in prices for the slabbed

MS70 coins?

 

Leo

 

 

Leo, You gave me an easy question, yet, a difficult question. but here goes...

 

PERFECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Should say a lot in its self..

 

Third party gradeing is, well, in demand!! Your coin is guaranted to be a certain grade, GUARANTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No if, ands, or buts about it! If you have a raw coin in uncirculated condition, send it in to be graded thinking its just a so so coin, but, it comes back to you in a specific MS grade, then you'd think WOW!!! This coin now a certain grade of mint state, and graded by professionals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Modern proofs are an example of the drive for perfection. They are made with the intent of being perfect.!!!!!! Which brings us to the grade of MS70; THE UNTIMATE GRADE!!!!!!!

 

Its supply and demand!!! To posses a coin that is absolutly perfect in every way is difficult to come by, thus, quantities are low, in return makes PRICES HIGH!!!

Collectors want perfection!! THE PERFECT COIN!!!!!!!!

 

Collectors are buying them up as soon as they hit the market. Just to have the PERFECT COIN IN THIER COLLECTION!!!!!!!!!!!

 

amazing huh!!

 

mike

 

---------------------

 

 

dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Mike

I just bought 40 unopened 1968 mint sets for $400, hopefully I'll find a few coins in there that will look MS70, to me anyway. That's what counts, right?

 

Leo

[cladking]

Good luck on the '68 mint sets. The price seems a little steep even for unopened ones, but don't despair. There will definitely be some real nice coins in these. While MS-69/70 is probably out of the question there will almost certainly be some spectacular gems here, some of which are not found outside of these sets. There should be two or three spectacular '68-P quarters (MS-66 or better). The dime in this set also run pretty good and the Denver quarter is the lowest mintage clad quarter and runs nice in the set. All three cents appear in sets frequently enough you'll likely have at least one. The nickels are often gem though six steps is highly unlikely for the S and "impossible" for the D. You should have a nice MS-65 half also. If these are in one of the big boxes then the sets will often tend to look a lot like one another which can deviate from the typical set. In any case you WILL have some gems.

[Leothelion]

Good luck on the '68 mint sets. The price seems a little steep even for unopened ones, but don't despair. There will definitely be some real nice coins in these. While MS-69/70 is probably out of the question there will almost certainly be some spectacular gems here, some of which are not found outside of these sets. There should be two or three spectacular '68-P quarters (MS-66 or better). The dime in this set also run pretty good and the Denver quarter is the lowest mintage clad quarter and runs nice in the set. All three cents appear in sets frequently enough you'll likely have at least one. The nickels are often gem though six steps is highly unlikely for the S and "impossible" for the D. You should have a nice MS-65 half also. If these are in one of the big boxes then the sets will often tend to look a lot like one another which can deviate from the typical set. In any case you WILL have some gems.

 

Cladking

I had no idea what to expect. Thanks for the input. The seller Valleycoindotbiz said the box of 20 has never been opened. Over the phone I learned there were two more boxes but one already sold. I'm searching for that proverbial needle in the haystack FS 68-D and I'd be happy with a FS 68-S. 80 mint state nickels helps the odds a little but what the heck. EDS, prooflike, highgrade are other coins I'm after. See the attachment to have a look at the 68-D I hope to improve. But like you said, it's unlikely.

 

Leo

[cladking]

Wow! That's gonna be a real tough coin to improve!

[Leothelion]

Wow! That's gonna be a real tough coin to improve!

 

It's from the Bill Fivas FS Jefferson collection. He had two. This one cost me $28 while the other went for 20X the money.

 

Leo

[msmhappy]

Leo, Ya did good, if, you want the sets to be opened by yourself. Maybe to find that extra sweet coin that hasent seen the light of day in some 35 years!!!!!!!!!

 

Go for it!!!

 

For me personally, I will do as you did and pay a premium on a set thats unopened. I normally buy 2 at a time though!! One to open just for fun, and the other to add to my collection as unopened!!!!!!!!

 

If you can find the ones where the envelopes are in perfect form, and the corners are sharp and pointy, those are the nice ones to keep sealed up!!!!!!!!!!

Well, at least to me they are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Oh buy the way!!! Have fun with those sets!!!!

 

 

mike

 

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dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GDJMSP]

GDJMSP, Are you saying the holder is worth more than its contents????

 

I DONT THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But the capitol holders do look nice..

 

mike

 

Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying or I am misunderstanding what you are saying. But no - I do not think the holder is worth more than the contents.

 

Proof sets or mint sets in Capitol holders sell for a fraction of what the sets in original Mint packaging sell for. As Greg pointed out earlier - in some cases that is because the buyer may think he can find a high grade example to be broken out and sent in for grading.

 

But for collectors like me - it is the originality of the set that holds the value. It is the combination of the original coins in the original Mint package. Remove one from the other and you end up with less.

 

It has often been said on this and many other boards that the sum of the parts can easily exceed the whole when it comes to Mint & Proof sets. But with many of the older sets it can also be said that the whole can exceed the sum of the parts.

[msmhappy]

GDJMSP, there is no missunderstanding here. We are on the same page!!!!

 

Yes, the sets can be worth more in a whole, as compared to being broken up.

 

However,

 

Yes, the individual coins from a set can be worth more without the set!!!

 

It's supply and demand!!

 

And yes again, I have seen sets from the 50's that have been put in capitol holders and been sold for much much more than they are worth. The capitol holders do make the older sets look much more appealing!! They really make the coins stand out vs. there original packageing. And to some, (even though they are the same coins) think their getting more, when in reality, their buying the holder!!!

 

And YES!!! I do feel the same as you. The originality of the set is more important to me, as I stated in the beginning. They were made for the collector!!

 

And, as I stated previously: The more proof and mint sets that are broken up and taken out of their original government packageing, the value of the remaining sets in original condition will continue to increase!!!

 

Supply and demand!!!

 

mike

 

--------------------------

 

dont forget! collect proof sets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!