What is it about toned coins that people like

[macrocoin]

Call me crazy, I dont get it. I have a few coins with some fringe tone. I wouldnt discard them but I wouldnt place them in the front of a display either. I suppose I like a sure thing, but I dont see the attraction to tone when compared with say a frosty cameo proof. To me, silver should look silver. I thought that the idea of MS was to have a coin in the state it left the mint in? Surely it didnt leave the mint after a hearty acid bath?

 

I can understand a certain novelty with a truly bag toned coin that has been on the bottom of a mint bag for a hundred years, but I wouldnt pay a premium for it.

 

Call me nuts but I concentrate my purchases toward crisp, clean, briliiant coins. With all the AT examples on the market I am really surprized more folks arent getting away from tone. The only reason AT exists is because the doctors can profit by doing so. When the money dissapears from AT, so does the act.

 

So what is the big deal about a rainbow on a Morgan?

Inquiring minds want to know?

[cpm9ball]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If everyone liked the same thing, we would only need one automaker, one agricorp and one political party.

 

Chris

[macrocoin]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If everyone liked the same thing, we would only need one automaker, one agricorp and one political party.

Chris

 

Beauty I get being subjective, but market value?

I suppose I see your point but consider this...

 

I like Ford, someone else likes Chevy. We learn that in the past several years, the Chevy's the other person has been buying werent authentic an actually just knockoffs made from substandard parts with a Chevy emblem stuck to the front. If it was determined that a fair population of the market of Chevy's out there were the fakes, it might make sense to begin exploring another manufacturer.

 

I know there is no wrong or right answers, just fishing for opinions.

[michael]

it is hard to explain it is something you just cant explain you got to believe or not

 

andof course ALL TONED COINS ARE NOT THE SAME let alone in the same league......................

but

 

see me after spending three decades specializing in and having a passion for a couple of pre 1915 coin series and then we can talk about this question further

 

as now there is not the information/experience necessary between both parties to truly appreciate and understand it as such

 

you either get it or you do not

 

but it does take time to understand and apprecaite it as such and also pick out the wheat from the chaff so to speaks

 

 

[michael]

[IGWT]

Michael's picture puts a quick end to the debate:

 

 

But I thought you were talking about pre-1915:

 

 

LouView

[Stanley]

When a picture is worth a thousand words

 

 

 

Not to say that Macrocoin is not entitled to have a different view, Michael is just showing us his view ( the other side of the coin.)

 

 

 

[cpm9ball]

If it was determined that a fair population of the market of Chevy's out there were the fakes, it might make sense to begin exploring another manufacturer.

 

Exploring another manufacturer doesn't cure the ill. Learning to spot the fake does. But, consider this, if you possessed an authentic Chevy and the population was reduced drastically because of the fakes, wouldn't it make your authentic Chevy that much more rare and valuable?

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

Michael's picture puts a quick end to the debate:

 

 

But I thought you were talking about pre-1915:

 

 

LouView

 

"KryptoView"? "LouView"? How about "HomeView"? I'll send you my address so you can put it in the mail.

 

Chris

[RGT]

"KryptoView"? "LouView"? How about "HomeView"? I'll send you my address so you can put it in the mail.

 

Chris

 

That's when it becomes "Pay per View".

[cpm9ball]

"KryptoView"? "LouView"? How about "HomeView"? I'll send you my address so you can put it in the mail.

 

Chris

 

That's when it becomes "Pay per View".

[kryptonitecomics]

I think the vast majority of collectors start out liking shiny white widgets...I know I did and there is nothing wrong with that.....but

 

I do believe that once you start delving into older pre-1900 series.....originality becomes a big concern so coins that have a nice original skin command premiums....and those with an original skin that include vibrant rainbow colors command even a higher premium.

 

This hold true for old furniture and bronzes as well.....if you strip off the old varnish or paint or patina....you just killed the value of the piece. With coins......the odds of a silver coin being minted in say 1875, remaining blast white are about as good as your odds of whinning the lotto. They been dipped and stripped and when done correctly they can still look very attractive and still have a ton of luster an eye appeal.....

 

Another improtant thing to consider is what type of collection do you want to own? If you have unlimited funds then you can acquire some of the rarest pieces on the planet and put together a one of a kind collection. If you are on a limited budget then you better come up with other ways of setting your collection apart from everyone elses...unless you want to have a generic McDonalds collection.

 

When you consider purchasing toned material.....you are buying one of a kind coins that stand out in a crowd. So why wouldn't you want to show this coin to a collector or non collector?

 

 

I guarantee that if you have a stack of Morgan's, Washington Quarters, or Franklin Halves and you throw in just one nicely toned coin.........most folks are going to pick up the toner first! Why.....becuase it's unique and doesn't look exactly like the other coins on the table.

[macrocoin]

Exploring another manufacturer doesn't cure the ill. Learning to spot the fake does. But, consider this, if you possessed an authentic Chevy and the population was reduced drastically because of the fakes, wouldn't it make your authentic Chevy that much more rare and valuable?

 

Chris

 

This makes very interesting food for thought.

Thanks to this thread (which is why I posted) I am seeing a take on this I had not previously. For moderns I tend to prefer the shiny white mint garden variety in higher grades, but after some consideration, I can see how a unique tone would have appeal with a pre-1900 silver coin. For me the requirement would be that it isnt the focal point. Anything that detracts from the design (to me) would be counterproductive and less appealing. But thats the beautiful thing about art, we all like different things and bring different pieces to the show!

 

Thanks for all the replies...its given me some perspective on the topic.

[TomB]

One of the beautiful things about collecting coins is that there is no single correct way to do it. Enjoy what you collect and keep an open mind to other areas, it mey help you in the long run.

[jom]

 

Toned coins suck.

 

jom

[EZ_E]

I think the vast majority of collectors start out liking shiny white widgets...I know I did and there is nothing wrong with that.....but

 

I do believe that once you start delving into older pre-1900 series.....originality becomes a big concern so coins that have a nice original skin command premiums....and those with an original skin that include vibrant rainbow colors command even a higher premium.

 

 

I was going to say something along these lines just not as well articulated. True, new collectors start out with an attraction to blast white, shiny coins. Just as most all non collectors feel obligated to clean any old coin that they may have to make it look like "new". But yet, as a collector becomes seasoned, a numismatic evolution takes place. Slowly, as knowledge and appreciation is gained, one realizes the true beauty and scarcity of an original, nicely toned piece.

 

True, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder but, in general, esthetics is universal. Chances are that if a coin is generally accepted as nice then most others would think so, too. Like the toned Morgan below. Only a color blind, deranged individual would not recognize the beauty contained! This is universal. There is no margin for argument. But, this is an easy case.

 

There are nuisances of series that only study and knowledge can unlock. In this age of "crackouts", original coins are being sacrificed for the hope of an upgrade. This is why a truly nice pre-1915 proof coin (or the like) is so difficult to come by. And if they are to be found, they most assuredly come with a premium attached. But that is better than paying full price for a problem coin. Problem coins are also universal. If it is ugly or problematic to you then most likely it will be to the other collector/dealer as well. This is why problem coins should usually be avoided unless there is a reason not to such as a rare variety, etc.

 

So, that is why toning is important: beauty, scarcity and value. Yet, a frosty, blast white, cartwheel-lustered coin still has it beauty! It is still a work of art and should be appreciated as such. However, it is near impossible for a coin to survive in its original state over decades and centuries. And, as stated, most individuals have an overwhelming urge to tamper with the coins in their custody to make them "purdy" again. The custodians of the US Mint's cabinet collection in the 1800's felt obligated to scrub and rub theirs. King Farouk felt the same obligation in the 1950's. Heck, I ruined an original set of circulated Walkers by the same boneheaded compulsion! Why? 'Cause boneheadedness comes easy but seasoned, numismatic knowledge must be sought after and earned, sometimes at the expense of hard knocks.

 

So, bottom line, an appreciation for toning comes from knowledge and experience and from an innate sense of beauty unique to the human race.

 

 

 

[Beijim]

Jom, those are three sweet coins! I especially like the Buffalo, whose delicate toning looks exquisite.

 

Beijim

[chinook]

When I got back into collecting it was with blast white DMPL Morgans. Then suddenly it dawned on me that they all looked the same. So I sold them all and starting buying coins that you just dont see everyday, such as these.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

What toning means to me is that someone, somewhere in the murky passages of time, decided that this particular coin was significant enough, beautiful enough, desirable enough, to put away in his album (or a Kraft envelope, or wherever it is that coins acquire beautiful toning). Now, today, I have an opportunity to savor what that long-gone collector enjoyed.

 

When the coin is blast white, that carries the connotation that the last person to own it cared about the coin so little (and about collecting for that matter) that he was willing to strip it to fit his misconception of what everyone is supposed to collect.

 

A coin with it's original surfaces intact, whether they be beautifully toned, or beautifully antique grey, retains it's history.

 

James

[Peace_Fan]

There are certainly beautifully toned coins, several of which are in evidence in this thread. I admire them but don't collect them, mainly because I have concerns over what they will look like in 20, 30 or 50 years from now. Toned coins contain contaminants that are unstable, and in some cases may harm the coin over time.

[EZ_E]

There are certainly beautifully toned coins, several of which are in evidence in this thread. I admire them but don't collect them, mainly because I have concerns over what they will look like in 20, 30 or 50 years from now. Toned coins contain contaminants that are unstable, and in some cases may harm the coin over time.

 

No, that is not necessarily true. A toned coin is actually more stable than a white coin since the toning actually protects the surface of the coin from further changing.

[HaydenTubbs]

No, that is not necessarily true. A toned coin is actually more stable than a white coin since the toning actually protects the surface of the coin from further changing.

 

 

I'd say that this one is pretty well protected!

 

[kryptonitecomics]

There are certainly beautifully toned coins, several of which are in evidence in this thread. I admire them but don't collect them, mainly because I have concerns over what they will look like in 20, 30 or 50 years from now. Toned coins contain contaminants that are unstable, and in some cases may harm the coin over time.

 

Actually....most coins tone do to their environment and not due to contaminants on the surface of the coin. Once a coin is removed from the environment that caused the toning (Album, Roll, Bag) etc....usually the toning all but stops.

 

Coins placed in TPG holders today are even more likely to stay in there current state of preservation. I know that the old no line fatty NGC holder where known to tone coins stored within them since essentially the coin and the paper lable were sealed in the same compartment and all paper has traces of sulfer which is the main ingredient in toning.

 

If you place a white Morgan in a PCGS or NGC holder today.....odds are there will be little to know change if we look at the same coin 30 years from now. That can also be said of Toned coins........If I place a beautiful rainbow Morgan in a pcgs holder today, there is no reason to believe that I will have a black coin 30 years from now.

 

Remember the Rainbow Morgans that came out of the Continental Bank Hoard back in the mid 80's? Those coins originated from sealed US Mint Bags and once removed still look just as good today....some 20 years later. The key here is to educate yourself on toning before rushing into a decision not to collect them. If you want to stick with white coins....noone is going to fault you and you certainly won't be alone

[michael]

What toning means to me is that someone, somewhere in the murky passages of time, decided that this particular coin was significant enough, beautiful enough, desirable enough, to put away in his album (or a Kraft envelope, or wherever it is that coins acquire beautiful toning). Now, today, I have an opportunity to savor what that long-gone collector enjoyed.

 

[CTcollector]

Call me crazy, I dont get it. I have a few coins with some fringe tone. I wouldnt discard them but I wouldnt place them in the front of a display either. I suppose I like a sure thing, but I dont see the attraction to tone when compared with say a frosty cameo proof. To me, silver should look silver. I thought that the idea of MS was to have a coin in the state it left the mint in? Surely it didnt leave the mint after a hearty acid bath?

 

I can understand a certain novelty with a truly bag toned coin that has been on the bottom of a mint bag for a hundred years, but I wouldnt pay a premium for it.

 

Call me nuts but I concentrate my purchases toward crisp, clean, briliiant coins. With all the AT examples on the market I am really surprized more folks arent getting away from tone. The only reason AT exists is because the doctors can profit by doing so. When the money dissapears from AT, so does the act.

 

So what is the big deal about a rainbow on a Morgan?

Inquiring minds want to know?

 

I look at it this way. Toning gives a coin its own special character. Pretty toning gives a coin eye appeal. Originality gives a coin integrity. Put that all together and you have something special. Its that simple for me.

[papag]

Just to add my two cents. I do and still collect the nice and bright shiny coins but to be honest like was said by so many before me here I have noticed a slight change of heart when it comes to toned coins. I have some real nice (in my opinion) Blue Jeffersons from proof sets. They set off the Jefferson quite nicely. I also have a very nice 1878 D and P Jerffersons will rainbow colors starting and with full steps. I have them in an album with other Jeffersons but you know they kind of stand out from the others when your looking at the page. Just my two cents.

papag

Ken

[TJ'S Coins]

What I like about toned coins? Originality, character and the fact that any toned coin I possess is truly one of a kind as no other coin will be toned in exactly the same way.

[MikeKing]

I want that sheild nickel

[Morgannut]

Call me crazy, I dont get it. I have a few coins with some fringe tone. I wouldnt discard them but I wouldnt place them in the front of a display either. I suppose I like a sure thing, but I dont see the attraction to tone when compared with say a frosty cameo proof. To me, silver should look silver. I thought that the idea of MS was to have a coin in the state it left the mint in? Surely it didnt leave the mint after a hearty acid bath?

 

I can understand a certain novelty with a truly bag toned coin that has been on the bottom of a mint bag for a hundred years, but I wouldnt pay a premium for it.

 

Call me nuts but I concentrate my purchases toward crisp, clean, briliiant coins. With all the AT examples on the market I am really surprized more folks arent getting away from tone. The only reason AT exists is because the doctors can profit by doing so. When the money dissapears from AT, so does the act.

 

So what is the big deal about a rainbow on a Morgan?

Inquiring minds want to know?

 

WOW-- "Surely it (a coin) didn't leave the mint after a hearty acid bath?"--Sorry to intrude the facts into your opinions--- Yes-- coins Morgans and minor denominations were washed in a sulfuric acid bath as roll strips before striking, and rewashed to clean off some of the acid as plachets. These mint State coins have acid resude in most cases.

"With all the AT examples on the market"--There have been hundreds of originally toned Morgans at coin shows since the release of the Continental Bank Hoard and Battle Creek Hoard. The number of AT appearing coins you see at shows is next to zero--although there are thousands of miserable failures offered online I'm sure--Go to a show and see what your opinion is--

 

"The only reason AT exists on the market is because the doctors can profit by doing so" That used to be true--Sorry, now you are almost completely wrong. The reason AT emerged was to hide a bad cleaning and other obvious defects before the grading services cleaned up the practice. AT was to hide problems--not make money on it's own.

 

I must say you are correct about a move to white coins (not moderns, they're suppost to be white and beautiful). Many astute collectors are buying up white coins now at as much as 15-20% below bid, because there is so much of this common stuff on the market-- It's an interesting possible investment angle.

[IGWT]

And don't forget that not all toning is multi-colored. For me, toning doesn't call originality into question; it serves as a mark of originality. Why would anyone want to see this coin in white?

 

1868 S2-0002