Does any one really believe this ????

[jgrinz]

"NGC Grading is usually done with the naked eye as that is generally the way the coin will be traded in the marketplace. Magnification is only used for counterfeit or alteration detection or in cases when a surface problem may be questioned"

 

This was a NCS reponse to a newbie question ...

 

NGC's eyes must be bionic or something.!

[James_OldeTowne]

Personally, I agree with this assessment. Trying to grade with a magnifying glass is difficult, with the best analogy being that old saying, "can't see the forest for the trees". If you magnify a coin's surface, the number of seeming flaws is overwhelming, and can obscure the true objective of grading, which is to give an overall impression of a coin's quality.

 

It's only when something weird is apparent that a glass should be resorted to. Like if you see hairlines, or spots, or dings, then magnification may reveal that something unnatural has happened to the coin.

 

James

[IGWT]

They have an advantage, I supposed, in viewing the coins outside of the plastic. I find it difficult to see hairlines and light (or transluscent) spots on small coins in a slab without magnification. The slab hinders viewing by (1) casting shadows, (2) covering edges, and (3) reflecting light when rotated through an angle that would otherwise reveal surface problems. Magnification is necessary for me overcome these difficulties.

 

With respect to detection of counterfeits or alterations, all I can say is read this link.

 

I read in another thread that TDN (a well respected grader) never uses a glass to grade coins. I don't know if he was referring to all series (or just larger coins) or to just raw coins (or slabbed coins as well). In any case, however, a loupe is useful to distinguish cleaning lines from die polish lines in the fields of Shield 5c.

[midwest]

Besides what the others allready said the graders are good at what they do. If you have graded as many coins as them a loupe would probably be unecessary too. Plus supposedly a lot of graders are very nearsighted. So technically they would just have to take off their glasses.

 

here's the post about nearsighted graders

[TerrapinWill]

I have to say that most people can probably guess within 1 or 2 grades up or down within 5 seconds. add their expertise to the equation, and I would say I dont find this too surprising.

 

Which begs the obvious question.....why pay money for their opinion, when you can get within the margin of error yourself?

[jgrinz]

Response From Jay Turner :

"As an NGC grader magnification is used when needed. While it is not always required, we often use through out the day often to distinguish between die polish and hairlines, or to see through toning to the coins surface as examples. Magnification is one of the necessary tools for grading a coin correctly."

 

[midwest]

Which begs the obvious question.....why pay money for their opinion, when you can get within the margin of error yourself?

 

their opinion is worth more than yours or mine.

[Hoot]

It's my understanding that these techniques are not at all limited to NGC, rather grading with the naked eye is preferable as a first pass to all graders in all services. As Jay commented, it's when one needs to discern minutia and/or markers for counterfeits (or varieties) that magnification is required.

 

Hoot

[Beijim]

I concur with Hoot.

 

When you know a series and have seen as many examples as have professional graders, you know where to look and how to inspect that particular coin. Good graders, like good aircraft pilots, develop a scan pattern - a standard sequence through which they direct their scrutiny. Pilots are looking for other traffic. Graders are looking for grade detractors. The purpose of the technique is essentially the same - detect the maximum number of "issues" with maximal efficiency.

 

Personally, the concept of accurately grading a coin within (say) fifteen seconds amazes me. Yet even I can scan types with which I'm really familiar and quickly identify problems. Familiarity breeds, well, familiarity!

 

Beijim

[truthteller]

Response From Jay Turner :

"As an NGC grader magnification is used when needed. While it is not always required, we often use through out the day often to distinguish between die polish and hairlines, or to see through toning to the coins surface as examples. Magnification is one of the necessary tools for grading a coin correctly."

 

 

 

This quote is probably the most accurate. However, if any grader were BUYING the coin for himself/herself and outlaying thousands of dollars, then I GUARANTEE you, they would be using a magnifying glass on EVERY coin.

 

 

 

TRUTH

[EZ_E]

A loup is a necessity to find various die varieties, alterations and the like but, if one becomes totally dependent upon them, the big picture is lost. As I mentioned, prior to LASIK surgery, I could see details that michael, a damn senior numismatist, would be in awe about. I would still use a loupe but just seldomly. Now, if I am to fully appreciate a coin then I definitely would need a loupe. That is all I have to say about that.

 

 

Based upon my quote from earlier, I fully agree with the premise of this thread. However, it all depends upon the eyesight of the grader and what they are used to. Before, I had the potential to have been an outstanding grader. Now, however, status post LASIK, I would say, "not anymore".

 

I was very surprised to see Newmismatist chime in saying that I highjacked his thread about "loops" since eyesight and magnification needs are so dependent upon each other. I'm still baffled at his tirade.

[TerrapinWill]

Which begs the obvious question.....why pay money for their opinion, when you can get within the margin of error yourself?

 

their opinion is worth more than yours or mine.

 

Incorrect...their opinion is worth more to you than your own is. Their opinion is still irrelevant to me.

[midwest]

Which begs the obvious question.....why pay money for their opinion, when you can get within the margin of error yourself?

 

their opinion is worth more than yours or mine.

 

Incorrect...their opinion is worth more to you than your own is. Their opinion is still irrelevant to me.

 

It may not matter to you but their opinion is worth more in the market. Besides they do know more about coins tha you or me would. However they may not know as much on a perticular series as some of the more educated members here would. *cough* Hoot *cough*

[TerrapinWill]

Which begs the obvious question.....why pay money for their opinion, when you can get within the margin of error yourself?

 

their opinion is worth more than yours or mine.

 

Incorrect...their opinion is worth more to you than your own is. Their opinion is still irrelevant to me.

 

It may not matter to you but their opinion is worth more in the market. Besides they do know more about coins tha you or me would. However they may not know as much on a perticular series as some of the more educated members here would. *cough* Hoot *cough*

 

That it is worth more in the market is not relevant to me as Im a collector and not a seller/dealer. That was all I was saying.

[cybersharque-migration]

My own experience: I got a Marine Dollar that graded as a PR70. When I inspected the coin under a 5x loupe, I found a blemish right in the middle of the globe device: a shiny sparkly spot in the midst of the frost. Naked eye inspection, even when I knew exactly where to look, did not reveal the ding, amd I jabe presbyopia, so it's not a problem of visual acuity :-) Hence I would agree that, at least in this case, the grade was set by naked eye inspection.

[midwest]

 

That it is worth more in the market is not relevant to me as Im a collector and not a seller/dealer. That was all I was saying.

 

Well my original answer is just to sum it up. Of course many people send coins to be certified for many different reasons. I don't see why you being a "collector" has anything to do with it. We're all collectors here. Your sort of confusing me here.

[IGWT]

That it is worth more in the market is not relevant to me as Im a collector and not a seller/dealer. That was all I was saying.

 

[T]he only way I would buy any [Franklin Silver Dollars] is if I thought I could get it cheap by selling a few extras for profit.

[EZ_E]

My own experience: I got a Marine Dollar that graded as a PR70. When I inspected the coin under a 5x loupe, I found a blemish right in the middle of the globe device: a shiny sparkly spot in the midst of the frost. Naked eye inspection, even when I knew exactly where to look, did not reveal the ding, amd I jabe presbyopia, so it's not a problem of visual acuity :-) Hence I would agree that, at least in this case, the grade was set by naked eye inspection.

 

That supports what other threads have been saying: "The 70 market is a sham!" All of the money is tied up in plastic for a coin that may or not be "perfect". Probably michael is right when he stated that many of the 70's are given as rewards for big-time submitters or newbie submitters. It is a market that I want absolutely nothing to do with.

[michael]

makes you want to go

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

 

70

 

 

[michael]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

 

[TerrapinWill]

 

That it is worth more in the market is not relevant to me as Im a collector and not a seller/dealer. That was all I was saying.

 

Well my original answer is just to sum it up. Of course many people send coins to be certified for many different reasons. I don't see why you being a "collector" has anything to do with it. We're all collectors here. Your sort of confusing me here.

 

Travis,

What I'm saying,, and I say this in most threads about plastic companies, is that my opinion of a coin is the only relevant one to me. I dont care if NGC spends 30 seconds or three weeks looking at coins. basically, that they grade like this has no bearing on me. To clarify, I am a hobbyist, which frankly is a rare breed today IMHO