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Call me Crazy... but this is a case of buy the coin and not the holder....

Started by Bruceswar,

22 posts in this topic

Bruceswar

Bruceswar

Posted
Posted

Ok first off let me state that what the holder says on it as far as grade wise goes ... just throw it out the window.... Second we could dive into NT vs AT... Which I could not find any reason for this coin to be AT.. Looks like a neat end roller, but one can never be 100% sure ... I could care less who graded the coin.... I like it and thats all that matters to me. But please feel free to give opinions... For the price I got the coin at I really like it.... Have a look and enjoy...

1064429-1965.jpg

1064429-1965.jpg.2286e7c410c0d9766ae617bd70fa358b.jpg

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
Posted

I have seen very similar coloring on plenty of NT Kennedy's.....I have also seen these colors on some AT coins.....but my gut tells me this one is legit. I too like the coin and whether it's ultimately AT or NT......nothing wrong with picking up that coin in a PCI holder.

 

Congrats 893applaud-thumb.gif

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braddick

braddick

Posted
Posted

I saw that one go on eBay twice, with no bidders. The first was at $99. opening bid and the second time at $75.

 

The scan looked awful but showed the coin's potential. I had emailed the seller and stated if the coin had not sold to contact me (his shipping was somewhere near $9. and I wanted to negotiate that). The seller then stated he was taking the coin off the market and no longer offering it.

Now seeing the coin I agree you got a killer deal! Absolutely beautiful with lovely color.

 

I don't know if it's real or not but I like it regardless.

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Bruceswar

Bruceswar

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its very odd... I did not even know the coin had been on ebay till I bought the coin at my local shop..... and while doing some researchI also saw the images.... I walked into the shop... he shot me price... and it was sold... then later saw it had been on ebay...

1065378-2b_12.jpg.a29c88dcc529af8a5a10803ced74a01e.jpg

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Jazzy

Jazzy

Posted
Posted

Ouch. Sorry dude. I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but that's almost certainly AT.

 

And PCI is not a reputable TPG - that coin is nowhere near a 67.

 

Also, end rollers are generally toned only on one side.

 

But if you like the coin, that's good enough.

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EZ_E

EZ_E

Posted
Posted

Gee, Jazzy, spread a little more cheer why don't ya? grin.gif

 

J/K, bro!

 

 

If you stare at this picture long enough you should

be able to see a giraffe. This is weird. Give it a try.

 

giraffe.gif

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jom

jom

Posted
Posted

Four things:

 

1) It is irrelevant whether PCI is a legit service or not when it comes to whether this coin is AT. I've seen this type of thing in NGC or PCGS holders too.

 

2) If Bruce likes the coin does it matter whether it's AT? You like. You buy.

 

3). However, I think it is unquestionably AT (IMO)...not that it matters.

 

4) I do not like the coin....my opinion only again.

 

jom

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Jazzy

Jazzy

Posted
Posted

Sorry. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I assume people come here for honest opinions. I've learned a great deal from people who expressed their straight-up opinions.

 

Yes, I've also seen baltantly AT coins in NGC and PCGS slabs, but I was only referring to the grade.

 

And I'm sorry, but it DOES matter that PCI is not a reputable TPG, at least inasmuch as someone buying a PCI slab should know what they are paying for.

 

Education is usually expensive.

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Bruceswar

Bruceswar

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Thats exactly what I wanted... Honest opinions..... I knew the coin was not MS 67 the moment I had the coin in my hand.... I was not sure on the AT vs NT.... and if the same people saw this coin in a PCGS holder would you still say it was AT? ... I see no real flags that say it is AT... No Blotchy toning... does not look outrangous in hand... To be honest ... I think this coin would cross to NGC or PCGS but at MS 65 with a shot at MS 66.. Thanks for the opinions... As a side note.... I was told this coin was pulled from an album by my local dealer who has always been strait forward with me... What he knew about the coin he passed on to me. He said he had sent it to PCI for a faster turn around time. We both knew that PCI was a 2 steps below ANACS, NGC, and PCGS... but for $9.00 he would take a chance on the coin slabbing.... There are alot of toned coins in slabs I am asking myself how they got that way... NGC, ANACS, and PCGS... and then they bring the big bucks.... I guess you can say ... something for everybody

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michael

michael

Posted
Posted

AT

 

and at best case highly questionable toning

 

even if john the baptist himself graded the coin and pcgs put in and others in pcgs plastic

 

IT IS still

 

AT

 

and one ugly fugly rat coin to boot

 

now please kill me the messenger

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted

The crazy colors would lead me to call this coin AT as well. I would expect to see the colors leaning much more toward the blue end of the spectrum if it were natural paper toning.

 

That said, there are many AT coins that I consider very beautiful and worthy of a premium, and your coin is one of them.

 

I'm glad you enjoy it, and it's too bad that sometimes, others can't understand your appreciation of a coin for what it is (beautiful), instead of what it isn't (natural). But the privilege of expressing dissenting opinions is what makes this such a wonderful hobby! smile.gif

 

James

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CTcollector

CTcollector

Posted
Posted
Michael what would make you think it is AT... What about this coin is a tip off for you?

 

Since I am also in the AT camp on this one. I would like to share why I think this coin is AT as you appear to have a sincere motivation to learn. First and foremost, If the coin had toned naturally over time via air transfer, the toning would be part of the coin. In other words, there would be "depth" to the toning. If the toning is artificial and accelerated, it tends to "float" on the coin's surface. The toning on your Kennedy appears as though its floating on the coin. If you have a halogen lamp hold the coin vertically against the bulb, you will see cloudiness on the surface. Additionally, the colors are running on the coin, another sign of accelerated toning. The colors are running through the hair and letters. Naturally toned coins tend to "break" at the devices and tone through the letters and numbers versus over the letters and numbers. Why is that ? because lettering, dates, and devices are slightly raised from the coins surface and are that much closer or further away from the toning source. The colors on your Kennedy are running from the top rim through the nose, forehead, hair, and ear to the bottom rim. Looks to be a result of directional gas versus air transfer. Also, look at the letters (we trust for example) the toning is running right over the letters. Now, I have attached an example of a naturally toned wash quarter. Compare the toning depth of the Kennedy versus the Quarter, also note how on the quarter the toning breaks at the wing outline, branch, perch, etc.. (it doesn't run over it). Also note how the toning is through most of the lettering (versus) over it. (notice inside the O's, A's R's, C's etc.....)

 

Hope this helps..... The best advice I can give is to learn what natural toning looks like and reject all else....

 

193225centRev1.jpg

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Bruceswar

Bruceswar

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Thanks for the great advice.... This coin has me really wondering if it would slab and what the grading companies would say.... Most of the coins I have seen are easy to tell AT from NT.. but this one could go either way ... some people have said NT some have said AT... but thats the beauty of these boards... to debate away on coins such as this one.... smile.gif

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CTcollector

CTcollector

Posted
Posted
Thanks for the great advice.... This coin has me really wondering if it would slab and what the grading companies would say.... Most of the coins I have seen are easy to tell AT from NT.. but this one could go either way ... some people have said NT some have said AT... but thats the beauty of these boards... to debate away on coins such as this one.... smile.gif

 

The best $30 bucks you will ever spend learning about AT/NT is Bob Campbell's ANA video - "how to detect artificial toninig on coins". Try to get your hands on a copy....

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Morgannut

Morgannut

Posted
Posted
Thanks for the great advice.... This coin has me really wondering if it would slab and what the grading companies would say.... Most of the coins I have seen are easy to tell AT from NT.. but this one could go either way ... some people have said NT some have said AT... but thats the beauty of these boards... to debate away on coins such as this one.... smile.gif

 

The best $30 bucks you will ever spend learning about AT/NT is Bob Campbell's ANA video - "how to detect artificial toninig on coins". Try to get your hands on a copy....

--------------------------------

 

I agree with CT's AT analysis on this coin and advice w/r to buying the Campbell' video. My only disagreement is with Campbell's "walking over" colors-- colors not broken by the coin's relief. I've reluctantly decided that a FEW silver issues stored in Wayte Raymond Albums pick up a deep azure blue that will go right over the incised areas of a surface. I've seen it on some old collections and Lucy (PCGS forum) has apparently reproduced it with her Mercurys/Frankies placed white in new, but vintage, albums. confused.gif

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