Would I get in trouble if I stole...........

[truthteller]

great posts off the PCGS website like this one:

 

 

 

CHAPTER ONE

 

Long Beach Coin Show, 1989

 

Guy, a PNG dealer and "Pretty Nice Guy" (hence, his fictitious name) shows a raw uncirculated 1813 half eagle to Mark, a very sharp coin dealer. (It will later become clear how our second character got his fictitious name.) He explains that he has the coin on consignment and wants a second opinion on the coin before offering it to a good retail customer "back home".

 

Mark looks very closely at the coin, loves it, and rather than giving his free opinion he tries to buy it. Under some pressure from Mark, Guy reveals that the coin is on consignment to him at 25K and that he was going to charge his customer 30K. Mark convinces Guy to sell him the coin instead, at the same 30K, which at the time was about an MS64 price. A deal is consummated. Mark is thrilled because he thinks it's a 65 worth 100K. Guy pays the consignor 25K and both he and the consignor are happy.

 

 

CHAPTER TWO

 

Several weeks have passed. Mark has sent his 1813 half eagle to both major grading services. Both have bodybagged the coin for "Altered Surfaces". (In fact, the entire coin was probably very lightly whizzed.) Although Mark still thinks the coin looks great, he realizes that he made a big mistake paying 30K for the coin.

 

CHAPTER THREE

 

Mark confronts Guy and asks for a refund. Guy says "Sorry, a deal's a deal. Besides, I've alread paid my consignor and he's not going to give me a refund. Why should I have to give you a refund?" Under pressure from Mark, Guy reveals the name of the consignor - "Doc", a well known coin dealer and major league doctor. Mark confronts Doc, again asking for a refund, and gets nowhere. In fact, Doc refuses to acknowledge that the coin has been whizzed. (Doc's refusal may be sincere. We don't know if he whizzed the coin himself, and the coin is obviously very deceptive.)

 

CHAPTER FOUR (Posted Saturday, April 26 at 3:45 PM)

 

Mark decides that his best chance at getting his money back is to take Guy to PNG arbitration. (As you recall, Guy is a PNG dealer. PNG is an exclusive dealer organization that purports to hold its members to the highest standards.)

 

Mark makes two claims:

 

1. There is a set of unwritten rules among honest coin dealers, and those rules allow for the return of whizzed and/or repaired coins.

 

2. He was defrauded. He concedes that Guy may not have known that the coin was whizzed, but even so it would still be his responsibility to refund Mark's money and go after Doc.

 

Guy makes one lone claim in his own defense:

 

1. All dealer-to-dealer transactions are final and without recourse.

 

 

Three arbitrators are selected. They are deeply divided. Two strongly support Mark. One strongly supports Guy. The process by which they ultimately reach a unanimous decision will make for the most interesting chapter yet.

 

But first, what do YOU think about Mark's two claims and Guy's defense?

 

-------------------------

Andy Lustig

EurekaTrading.com

 

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[truthteller]

Frankly, I know who the parties were in the story. One of them is a well known coin doctor as alluded to. The other does makes good money, so 30k will be made up quite quickly. PNG is a farce, because dealers can 'stack the deck' with other PNG members to vote for or against another in arbitration. I have the code of ethics booklet, and it states, I gather from memory at the moment, that a PNG member may not use fraud against another PNG member or the public. It does not state that PNG can arbitrate if another party, such as the 'Guy' person, was in the middle.

 

TRUTH

[Beijim]

Mark's claims are reasonable, logical, and appropriate. Guy's defense is [!@#%^&^].

 

Beijim

 

[Higashiyama]

In judging this situation, I will ignore the fact that Guy is known to be a doctor.

 

In such a situation, I would expect a dealer to dealer transaction to be final. It was a sight seen purchase, and Mark has a good opportunity to inspect the coin.

 

If the purchaser was a non-dealer collector, the seller should refund the purchase price.

 

 

[Beijim]

In judging this situation, I will ignore the fact that Guy is known to be a doctor.

 

I believe "Doc" was the known coin doctor, whereas "Guy" was simply a dealer. Unless you know who Guy is in real life and are adding the information that he too is a known numismatic manipulator, or is a licensed medical practitioner.

 

Beijim

 

[gmarguli]

Would I get in trouble if I stole........... great posts off the PCGS website like this one:

 

No. I thought about doing it, but I haven't seen any great posts in the last month...

 

 

As for the story, I say Mark is SOL and Guy is fine. A dealer has to take his hits regardless of who sold him the coin. That's what being a professional is all about.

[kenwin1]

I think he should take his loss and try to "out" the coin doctor.

[MrEureka-migration]

Yes, you could get into VERY big trouble.

 

BTW, there was lots of interesting discussion on each of the first four chapters "across the street". Chapter 5 of 6 will be posted later today.

[davefperry]

I think I'll wait for the movie.

[truthteller]

Hey Andy,

 

Why don't you post over here and keep me out of Rikers Prison.

 

TRUTH

[truthteller]

***********UPDATE*************NEWS FLASH********************************

 

***********************************UPDATE***************************************

 

 

****************************NEWSFLASH**************************************

 

 

 

Guy acquitted of all charges. Mark to wallow in misery at verdict.

News at 11:00

 

 

 

 

TRUTH