"Original" Slabbed Coins by NGC

[supertooth]

Folks----This is an idea whose time has come. Maybe NGC could beat out PCGS and do it first? Many of us on both boards have suggested it. We need to help the coins. Place "original coins" in a holder that is marked "original". And maybe the owners could then place their coins in an "Original Conservancy Registry Set" where they would be held-----like property [land] is conserved. The coins could then be sold "ONLY" to those who would pledge to keep the coins in their "original" state until they are sold again. A conservancy agreement bound only by one"s word. But at least we could give the "original skinned" coins a better chance of staying that way----by giving them a holder where everyone would know that they haven"t been messed with. We need to try and keep coins like the half that Tom B just showed to us from happening. Opinions from "ALL" of you please!! Bob [supertooth]

[James_OldeTowne]

There will be arguments about what constitutes "original".

 

For example, many bust halves display beautiful "original" rainbow toning due to placement in Wayte Raymond boards. However, the fact is that many of them were actually cleaned prior to being stored in this manner, and for that matter, one might argue that had they not been cleaned, they wouldn't have toned so well.

 

Another argument would arise about whether or not a brilliant "dipped" coin that's allowed to sit for a few days and reacquire a patina would be "original" or not.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your idea, which I think would be wonderful if it could happen

 

James

[HaydenTubbs]

Bob,great idea but it just isn't going to happen. You have to remember that NGC makes money of these submissions so I seriously doubt they would even consider it. While it may seem hideous and I detest it, there is nothing morally wrong with cleaning your coins up in hopes that when resubmitted they'll grade higher.I wouldn't want a doctored coin but there are many out there who just buy the plastic and they don't really care how the coin looks.

Anyhow just my opinion,

Hayden

[nwcs]

Absolutely right that the definition of original would come into question. In many cases you just can't tell.

[Hoot]

I think that this has been tried, in a fashion. When ANACS was photographing coins that they authenticated, this left a "trail of originality" with the owner of the coin. It was up to the owner to pass on this form of quthenticity and "current state of originality" with the coin. Similarly, one can have any coin phot proofed by NGC. I don't think that many people are even aware of the service, let alone its value. It's a fantastic service that makes a very nice (restaurant-menu-like) folder with an image of your coin and a description of both the coin, and more generally, about the issue. This can serve as a basis for conservancy.

 

How many auction listings have the line "photo proof included!" in them? None. There are few minds involved in the deep philosophical ideals of coin collecting and a whole lot more with cash.

 

Like others, Bob, I think your idea is good and right on target. It would take people with initiative to get this ball rolling, but it won't roll very far, I'm afraid.

 

A fellow board member, who goes by Sunnywood (and of course, TomB), has posted more than a few raucous threads admonishing the "conservation" of old gold and silver coins to get the grade bumps that translate into thousands of bucks. But therein lies the problem. There are many people involved in coin trade who could care less about the hobby and its devoted members.

 

Now, I've got certificates for 10 photo proofs laying around here. I suppose their time has come (even though I've had a few made on coins I still have).

 

Hoot

[Mozin]

Good idea but it will never fly.

[nwcs]

I think many of us don't get photo proofs because we effectively make our own. As long as there is a large profit motive for such actions they will continue. I don't think that all originality is good and all conservation is bad. But definitely it's done all too often and many times on coins that (in my opinion) didn't merit it or need it and wouldn't benefit by it.

[cpm9ball]

I have to agree with everyone for all of their reasons. As sensible as it may seem to the true collector, it just won't fly because there is really no way it could be enforced.

 

Chris

[TomB]

There are certain concepts in your post that I like very much, though there are myriad problems with definitions and implementation.

 

One thing, however, that may help this cause is if the TPGs instituted a designation similar to the * designation. That is, if circulated coinage could qualify for a designation such as "Original" or something else on the holder. In this way, newer collectors might learn what an original coin should look like and there may be impetus to keep coins in an original state since a market may grow up around these designated coins.

 

Of course, not all original coins would be designated since the definition is so vague, but if a TPG wrote something like-

Coins designated "Original" on the holder are those coins that epitomize the look of naturally circulated and oxidized coinage that have not been intentionally altered in any manner. Coins not receiving the "Original" designation are not necessarily altered, they simply do not have the requisite surface appearance.

This may help to promote crusty coins while at the same time not condeming those pieces that fail to earn the designation.

[supertooth]

Tom B------Absolutely like your thoughts. As long as it would not affect the way other coins are graded or slabbed. Even if we had to pay an "additional" buck for their trouble to type the insert. We would only be creating more business for them. And your way of thinking would mean no harm or foul to those coins that had been graded in years past. Tom B----I wrote to Ask NGC yesterday----Maybe it will be put onto the boards on Monday? Hope they do reply. Asked that they read this thread. People who want to "help" original skinned coins should make the effort. We are loosing far too many really nice coins. It needs to be stopped or at least slowed down. Others----on the PCGS boards as well---think as we do. If enough well meaning folks get together, it cannot but help. And, if the third party people end up making extra money for something that they are already doing, then it could be done. There could be "original skinned" coins right alongside "market acceptable" coins. Could have a whole new bunch of "Registry" sets as well. A "BOOM" to the marketplace. Wouldn"t cost the TPGS a dime other than typing one or two words onto the insert. And we could then buy "sight unseen" with much more confidence----would come closer to what the TPG was supposed to do in the first place. What do you all think now? It is not impossible. Please tell me it is not. Bob [supertooth]

[Oldtrader3]

Using more generalized collection (owner) attributions on slabs may be the marketing tool of the future. NGC/PCGS could attribute coins from more collections using only those coins that are high ranking in Pop. or are prime examples of higher scarcity coins. These attributed slabs could be prime examples of these criteria. Plus it might help keep track of coins which go through the auction mill time after time.