An EF45 1802 Draped Bust Half Dollar Dipped in the Name of Greed

[TomB]

Similar to many other board members I have diverse collecting interests within US numismatics. These can be broadly broken down to include superbly toned coinage, original F-EF Barber halves and early, circulated, problem-free type. Above all, I pursue coins that I believe have not been intentionally altered and that have exceptional eye appeal.

 

These three groups of interest also include specific coins that I track. These tracked coins are generally either difficult to find in an original state or difficult to find at all. They are also coins that I have thought at some point were undervalued relative to other areas of US numismatics. One of these coins is the 1802 Draped Bust half, especially in the VF through AU range. Therefore, similar to shylock but not nearly as expansive, I take notes on, and save images of, coins that fall within this range.

 

The other night I was going through the JJ Teaparty site and noticed that the NGC EF45 1802 half dollar that they have in inventory looked familiar to me. Part of the description was as follows-

Mostly brilliant with traces of golden and amber toning. Small planchet flaw at the tip of the eagle's right wing.

The image of the coin makes it appear bright white, without noticeable toning, and no visible patina. This is troubling since a coin that is over two centuries old and that has the amount of wear on it that an EF45 has will typically not remain nearly as white as the day it was issued. I went through my saved images looking for where I had seen this coin previously and I found that it was sold in a Heritage auction in 2004. However, the coin in the Heritage auction was toned and was described as being dove-grey. Certainly, the image and description of the coin, part of which is below, from 2004 did not match the look of the coin in 2005.

 

An attractive dove-gray example with a bold motto and pleasing definition in Liberty's hair and the eagle's plumage. Struck on a planchet with a defect near 2 o'clock on the reverse.

Since it was obviously the same coin and in the same grade I decided to give Gail at JJ Teaparty a call. I told Gail directly that I was not interested in buying the coin but that I did have two questions for her about the piece. She was gracious enough to answer my questions knowing well that I would not be the buyer of this coin. The first question I asked was if the coin was as white in-hand as the images suggest and she confirmed that it was very white and that it had a touch of gold toning in certain spots. I then asked for the certification number. I was expecting the certification number to be different now than it was when Heritage sold the coin since the coin had to have been cracked out in order to dip it and indeed this was the case. Gail also said that the coin actually looked attractive in-hand, but I cannot comment on that since I have not seen it in-hand in this state.

 

This leaves us with a dipped, unnatural looking EF45 1802 half dollar in an NGC holder. The small splashes of gold toning that have developed on the coin in the last year may well be from an improper rinse or neutralization after the ill-advised dip and might continue to develop, darken or otherwise damage the surfaces. Whatever originality the coin might have had was sacrificed in the name of greed. Currently, the price spread between an EF45 (about $7,000) and an AU50 (about $23,000) makes this mid-grade coin an attractive target for alteration. In this case it didn’t work as the coin is in a holder with the same grade as previous and it has been stripped of any resemblance to what it should look like. I have no doubt that someone will eventually buy this coin, but it won’t be someone like me. Also, I would hope that folks realize that this type of thing happens with coins in every TPG holder. As an example, in September I was at a show and had the opportunity to pick up and examine a PCGS graded EF45 1802 half only to find that not only was the coin overgraded (it was really a VF30 or VF35) but that it had been harshly dipped and only the perimeter of the coin had managed to tone again. The coin was not attractive yet I assume that it, too, will find a new owner.

 

Lastly, I would like everyone to realize that I am not slamming JJ Teaparty over this coin. In fact, some of my favorite pieces in my collection have come from JJ Teaparty including the Gobrecht dollar that goose3 so loves and my 1817/3 half, both of which are imaged below.

[supertooth]

Tom B-------- One can only lament the actions of others. As I have often said on these boards, the coin belongs to its current owner. And, as such, is subject to that owners whims. You would think that a legitimate coin person would not harm this coin---you would think?? But, in reality, we find that each and every day we loose some "original" coins to the consequences of time and the greed of humankind. You and I ,my friend, would buy all of them if we could to save them. But, alas, that also is impossible. All we can do is what you have just done. Bring it to others attention and hope that, in some small way, it will make a difference. In some countries they chop off hands for theft. It would be nice to punish the guilty for stealing this coin"s skin. I would like to add that I wished that NGC had not reholdered the coin. For, in doing that, they seem to be agreeing with the treatment it went through? And, as such, are now complacent in the deed. Bob [supertooth]

[IGWT]

As I have often said on these boards, the coin belongs to its current owner. And, as such, is subject to that owners whims.

 

Yeah, I suppose . . . not. I sincerely feel that we are merely stewards of our coins for the generations of collectors to come. I'll grant you that it's a moral obligation, not a legal one (and one that I know you agree with, Bob, despite the portion of your post that I quoted).

[nwcs]

Such a shame, too, as the pre-dip looks SO MUCH BETTER than the post dip.

[Oldtrader3]

I think that part of this process is collector/dealer education. Both need to understand that a 200 year old piece of copper or silver is not going to be "new" looking and should not be. If no one would buy these coins, the dipping and other "doctoring" would soon stop because of lack of profit.

[cpm9ball]

I would like to add that I wished that NGC had not reholdered the coin. For, in doing that, they seem to be agreeing with the treatment it went through? And, as such, are now complacent in the deed. Bob [supertooth]

 

I'm wondering if the coin was dipped before it was resubmitted to NGC, or if it was submitted to NCS, first, before being reholdered.

 

Too bad! It's really a shame that some people will do anything for money. Who knows the hands this coin may have passed through! George Washington? Thomas Jefferson or Patrick Henry? Perhaps, Lafayette? Like jealousy, greed too, is the "green-eyed monster"!

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

I'm not so sure whether the coin was cleaned through dipping, or some other method. It has that weird, fake mint-frost look that happens when a coin is cleaned with baking soda.

 

There are some who would say this coin has been, in effect, coin-doctored, and that's an assessment I would agree with. Frankly, it looks disgusting now, especially in contrast to how it used to look, and I wouldn't want that coin in my collection regardless. And yes, I do know how difficult the 1801 and 1802 Draped bust halves are!

 

James

[supertooth]

Chris-----Gosh I hope that NCS did not have a hand in this----I sort of doubt it. Any person with knowledge wouldn"t do this. From what I have heard, fooling with "original" coins below an AU grade usually is not advised. Bad results!! Especially 200 year old coins should not be fooled with. I doubt that a "true" professional would harm such a coin. Only the money hungry do this kind of thing. Nobody who would do this could call themselves a Numismatist IMHO. And I do agree with IGWT that we are only stewards for the coins. However, it would appear that there are always going to be some "bad" stewards out there. As I hinted in my previous thread, I wish that we could somehow punish them for their actions. They surely deserve to suffer for their actions. Bob [supertooth]

[jtryka]

Tom, this is really a sad story, but unfortunately one that is WAY too common, especially in bust and seated material. Every show I attend, either large or small, I look at the bust and seated material (though I admit I am really most interested in bust halves) and it's amazing how many of these coins have been harshly cleaned. Even lower grade common date/varieties are not immune. It just seems that many folks, especially non-collectors treat coins like doorknobs, if it's dull just give it a good polish and it'll be as good as new. I just hope that some more broadly watched shows, like Antiques Roadshow on PBS will instruct more people as many of their experts on furniture etc. stress originality and the importance of patina on older items. It really illustrates the important role each of us plays in educating others on these items and the importance of originality. Unfortunately since there is such a finite supply, more of these great pieces of history are "dying" each day. Fortunately there are those of us that will buy these original pieces and hold them. I remember when I bough my much more common 1807 Draped Bust half, it was only a VF, but totally original, the only example at the small show I found it at, and I bought it from that dealer less than 2 hours after he bought it. So orginality sells, and all those other dealers with lower grade and obviously cleaned draped bust halves still sit on that inventory. So perhaps economics might also have an impact. Still it's very sad.

[HaydenTubbs]

That's a sad story Tom,it really was a nice looking piece before...

[Mozin]

Whoever bought the coin from Heritage must have soon thereafter "conserved" it, likely in hopes of an AU grade. There was not much time since that auction for this coin to tone back which accounts for only a trace of "gold and amber" toning. The coin must have been resubmitted fairly recently.

 

Personally I do not feel the original look on this coin was attractive, but it was original. The coin as it is now might just as well be cracked out and allowed to retone naturally---with a little help from a paper envelope and a sunny window ledge. In a couple of years this coin's look could actually be much more appealing.

 

I have many Bust Halves that are AU dipped coins. The problem is that I bought some of them already encapsulated soon after they were dipped so any toning progression is hard to detect. The others that were allowed to retone before encapsulation are toning further and becoming even more attractive. If the luster is sufficient a 200 year old dipped AU Bustie coin can look pretty darn nice if given a chance to retone.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the dipped look more than original. I will buy dipped white Busties if I like them, especially because the price is usually less than toned ones.

[cpm9ball]

Chris-----Gosh I hope that NCS did not have a hand in this----I sort of doubt it. Any person with knowledge wouldn"t do this. From what I have heard, fooling with "original" coins below an AU grade usually is not advised. Bad results!! Especially 200 year old coins should not be fooled with. I doubt that a "true" professional would harm such a coin. Only the money hungry do this kind of thing. Nobody who would do this could call themselves a Numismatist IMHO. And I do agree with IGWT that we are only stewards for the coins. However, it would appear that there are always going to be some "bad" stewards out there. As I hinted in my previous thread, I wish that we could somehow punish them for their actions. They surely deserve to suffer for their actions. Bob [supertooth]

 

Hey, Bob! I'm not implying that NCS did anything wrong. However, it is possible that the owner INSISTED that it be conserved, ignoring any possible objections from NCS.

 

Chris

[TomB]

I'm glad many people have read this thread and were moved enough to take the time to post. I agree that the look of the coin before it was altered might not have been stellar, but it did look more natural.

 

I try to do my part in giving original coins a good home, the problem is that when you find the really tough coins, like the 1802 in EF45, then they cost a lot. That's one reason why I only have one 1802 Draped Bust half in EF45. The other reason is that the population of this coin is 11 and at least one coin, the victim shown in this thread, accounts for two of that total. Here is my coin-

Believe me when I tell you that I would try to buy all the original Bust series coinage if I could afford it so that they might be preserved for the future.

 

As for NCS, they will decline to work on a coin, no matter what the submitter says, if they view the work to be detrimental to the coin. I know this because I submitted a toned, MS Morgan for a friend and NCS refused to dip the coin. They wrote back that they thought that conserving the coin would negatively impact the visual appearance and they didn't care if you were willing to pay. Therefore, I think it highly unlikely that NCS had a role in this tale of abuse.

[HaydenTubbs]

I'm glad many people have read this thread and were moved enough to take the time to post. I agree that the look of the coin before it was altered might not have been stellar, but it did look more natural.

 

I try to do my part in giving original coins a good home, the problem is that when you find the really tough coins, like the 1802 in EF45, then they cost a lot. That's one reason why I only have one 1802 Draped Bust half in EF45. The other reason is that the population of this coin is 11 and at least one coin, the victim shown in this thread, accounts for two of that total. Here is my coin-

Believe me when I tell you that I would try to buy all the original Bust series coinage if I could afford it so that they might be preserved for the future.

 

As for NCS, they will decline to work on a coin, no matter what the submitter says, if they view the work to be detrimental to the coin. I know this because I submitted a toned, MS Morgan for a friend and NCS refused to dip the coin. They wrote back that they thought that conserving the coin would negatively impact the visual appearance and they didn't care if you were willing to pay. Therefore, I think it highly unlikely that NCS had a role in this tale of abuse.

 

Wow! That is one original coin!

 

Love it!

[Bruceswar]

I'm glad many people have read this thread and were moved enough to take the time to post. I agree that the look of the coin before it was altered might not have been stellar, but it did look more natural.

 

I try to do my part in giving original coins a good home, the problem is that when you find the really tough coins, like the 1802 in EF45, then they cost a lot. That's one reason why I only have one 1802 Draped Bust half in EF45. The other reason is that the population of this coin is 11 and at least one coin, the victim shown in this thread, accounts for two of that total. Here is my coin-

Believe me when I tell you that I would try to buy all the original Bust series coinage if I could afford it so that they might be preserved for the future.

 

As for NCS, they will decline to work on a coin, no matter what the submitter says, if they view the work to be detrimental to the coin. I know this because I submitted a toned, MS Morgan for a friend and NCS refused to dip the coin. They wrote back that they thought that conserving the coin would negatively impact the visual appearance and they didn't care if you were willing to pay. Therefore, I think it highly unlikely that NCS had a role in this tale of abuse.

 

Tom .. did you forget to send me that beauty... very nice coin......

[Hoot]

Phlegmy! TomB Phlegmy!

 

What an outstanding coin! I also love the 1978 dollar you just added to your reg set!!!

 

Hoot

[cpm9ball]

As for NCS, they will decline to work on a coin, no matter what the submitter says, if they view the work to be detrimental to the coin. I know this because I submitted a toned, MS Morgan for a friend and NCS refused to dip the coin. They wrote back that they thought that conserving the coin would negatively impact the visual appearance and they didn't care if you were willing to pay. Therefore, I think it highly unlikely that NCS had a role in this tale of abuse.

 

Thanks, Tom, that is reassuring!

 

Chris

 

PS. Beautiful coin!

[jtryka]

Tom, that half is a real gem in every sense of the word! Thanks for sharing it.

[TomB]

Thank you all for the kind words about my 1802. There is more to write about this coin as a very generous board member on the PCGS site sent me a PM to give me more information. The coin was sold by Sheridan Downey in Downey's MBS#15 and the lot description is as follows-

"Tied for #2 condition census. Even lower mintage than in 1801 and comparably rare in high grade. I've seen but one honest AU, never an UNC. NGC awarded this superb coin a bonus for eye appeal. The surfaces and toning are first rate, but I'd like to see more luster for a 45. The strike is excellent, with plenty of breast feathers and a few on the neck. All in all, the Brown coin is superior to the bright, hairlined "AU" that brought $5500 in the Brilliant sale. Here is a prize for the serious collector. (from) Jules Reiver, 1984"

I find it especially gratifying and amazing that Robinson Brown purchased this coin from Jules Reiver before it came into my possession as I had known Jules and would have lunch with him at the Baltimore shows. It is also incredible that numismatists of the like of Reiver, Brown and Downey all thought so highly of this coin and now I am its caretaker.

[James_OldeTowne]

Before I read Downey's description, I was thinking to myself "EF-45". Personally, I think it's the right grade. Frequently, a thick, original patina disguises luster that may well lurk on the surface, but just not be exposed for viewing.

 

Fantastic coin, and one of the best I've seen.

 

James

[AlixTCat]

I, for one, just love the original half you posted. I'm new to Draped Bust Halves. How does/did one determine these were indeed half dollars. Am I missing some sort of indicator on the coins? I don't see 50 c. or "Half-Dollar" on them. (Please excuse my ignorance.)

 

Jonathan

[jtryka]

I, for one, just love the original half you posted. I'm new to Draped Bust Halves. How does/did one determine these were indeed half dollars. Am I missing some sort of indicator on the coins? I don't see 50 c. or "Half-Dollar" on them. (Please excuse my ignorance.)

 

Jonathan

 

Excellent question! The value on the pre-1807 halves was contained on their lettered edge which stated, "Fifty Cents or Half a Dollar" with various ornamentation between the words. With the capped bust design in 1807, the denomination 50 C. was added to the reverse (and it continued to be stated on the edge as well). There are also many types of errors and other fun things to discover with the edge lettering, which to me is the major drawbacks of certified coins!

[TomB]

You've been given excellent information by jtryka. There was, however, another way one could tell the denomination and that was by size. At this point in time other nations' coinage was legal tender in our country and the size of each coin was tied to its value since they were generally all bullion. So, even if you had not seen a US half dollar, you likely would have been familiar with a Mexican or Spanish 4R (four reales) and this was essentially identical in size and weight to our half dollar. In this way most folks could determine the relative value of coinage issued from various nations.

 

I guess in this case size did matter!

[jtryka]

TomB is absolutely correct, and leave it to me to leave out the obvious answer, but the size aspect would be useful mainly to contemporaries. Since these coins are somewhat larger than a modern half dollar, from our perspective today the size might still be confusing (being a diameter between a half dollar and silver dollar).

[EVillageProwler]

I believe I saw TomB's 1802, and it is a monster! Too bad about that other coin though...

 

EVP

[AlixTCat]

Thanks for the info on where to find the denomination. I appreciate you being kind to a newbie to bust material.

 

Jonathan

[TomB]

EVP! How the heck are you?!?!

 

I feel as though this coin has reached a new level of respect with the statement-

I believe I saw TomB's 1802, and it is a monster!

[supertooth]

Tom B------I go away for a few days to visit my daughter at college and what do you go and do?? Put one of the most beautiful halves out there for us to see. In my lifetime, I have been both a gold and a silver bug. I had CC gold fever soooo bad that it actually possessed my almost every thought years ago. Silver has never quite gotten me soooo badly. But, I must admit, this coin has my salivary glands pumping overtime. Over on the PCGS boards they use a complimentary phrase when someone does real good. I have never used that phrase until now. But, I will not spell it out for fear of it being axed. But Tom B----you s---k!! Maybe they will let that go through? In any event, you know what I mean. I wish you a long life to admire this piece!! This coin is what us gun people call "a museum piece". Well, if I say anything else, you might get the idea that I like the coin? Imagine someone dipping the heck out of this piece?? Another reason that we need an "original" holder. Bob [supertooth]

[Hoot]

Imagine someone dipping the heck out of this piece??

 

DIP IT! DIP IT!!! Then bake it in a potato to help it look NT.

 

Hoot

[JamminJ]

Imagine someone dipping the heck out of this piece??

 

DIP IT! DIP IT!!! Then bake it in a potato to help it look NT.

 

Hoot

 

Put the coins down and tale a few steps back. Please.