Bidding sight-unseen

[IGWT]

The term "sight-unseen" always seemed like a strange combination of words to me; but, it's the term we often use to describe buying a coin without being able to view it in person (or through a representative) before purchase and without an option to return the coin if not satisfied. I can't travel to the major auctions, so -- unless I have a dealer or friend in attendance -- any winning bids by phone, mail, or internet would be "sight-unseen" purchases.

 

Conventional wisdom tells collectors to never buy a coin "sight-unseen." I'm wondering: Do (or would) you ever defy this conventional wisdom; and, if so, under what circumstances?

[gmarguli]

Sure, all the time. Assuming that even with a picture is sight-unseen - this would cover most major auctions and eBay.

 

Also, if you trust the dealer selling the coin, there is no reason to not buy sight-unseen - without a picture. If you are serious about buying coins, there should be several dealers you work with that you can trust enough to buy coins from without seeing them in person first. They should know your tastes and you should know their abilities in describing a coin.

[IGWT]

Assuming that even with a picture is sight-unseen

 

Your assumption is correct; I should have made that clearer in my question. Pictures, as we know, can be quite deceiving (whether intentional or not).

 

Many eBay auctions (and all in which I choose to participate) qualify as sight-seen because there are no-questions-asked return privileges.

[Hoot]

Sure, all the time. Assuming that even with a picture is sight-unseen - this would cover most major auctions and eBay.

 

Also, if you trust the dealer selling the coin, there is no reason to not buy sight-unseen - without a picture. If you are serious about buying coins, there should be several dealers you work with that you can trust enough to buy coins from without seeing them in person first. They should know your tastes and you should know their abilities in describing a coin.

 

Exactly.

 

Here in Montana, I have to buy sight-unseen all the time. I also travel to shows and to other cities where I get to visit shops upon occasion, but the vast majority of my purchases are sight-unseen.

 

One thing that aids any purchase via the internet for me is a good description. I'll often put more stock in a great description that is honest about the coin's weaknesses (all coins have them) than a photo.

 

Hoot

[michael]

Conventional wisdom tells collectors to never buy a coin "sight-unseen." I'm wondering: Do (or would) you ever defy this conventional wisdom; and, if so, under what circumstances?

 

 

never i think it would be possible but extremely rare as such

[BankNote1]

My not being able to travel means I buy everything sight-unseen! Although, I don't buy any coin or note from a seller I don't know on eBay with-out a return!

My rule #1 is if he aint got a return I aint got to bid! Pardom my Southern!!!

[cpm9ball]

I've bought from Hayden a few times, sight-unseen, because he doesn't pull any punches. I respect him for that and his descriptions have always rung true. He does miss a VAM now and then, but I won't hold that against him.

 

Chris

[IGWT]

My not being able to travel means I buy everything sight-unseen! Although, I don't buy any coin or note from a seller I don't know on eBay with-out a return!

My rule #1 is if he aint got a return I aint got to bid! Pardom my Southern!!!

BN1 -- If you insist on a return privilege -- that is, if you can exercise an option to return a coin after examining it in hand -- then you are buying "sight-seen" not "sight- unseen") as I defined the term in the first post.

 

 

Also, if you trust the dealer selling the coin, there is no reason to not buy sight-unseen - without a picture. If you are serious about buying coins, there should be several dealers you work with that you can trust enough to buy coins from without seeing them in person first.

Greg -- If you have developed that degree of trust through a long-standing relationship with a dealer, wouldn't you expect the dealer to allow you to return a coin if, after receiving it, you weren't happy with it?

 

 

One thing that aids any purchase via the internet for me is a good description

Mark -- Do you really let a good description substitute for the right to return a coin?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

I buy over the internet using pictures and have dealers with whom I work on a periodic basis; still, if I can't see a coin in person before the words "done deal" are spoken, then I won't commit except in very limited circumstances. For example, if I spot a variety in a Heritage auction that I can cherrypick for my collection, I will go for it. In that case, I'm more concerned about the particular variety than about the accuracy of the grade assigned by a TPG or even the possibility of variation in appearance between the photo and the actual coin. Under these circumstances, the TPG certification alone is enough for me to pull the trigger.

[James_OldeTowne]

There are some misunderstandings about what "sight unseen" means. If you must commit to the purchase without ever seeing it first-hand, then that is strictly the only time it is "sight-unseen".

 

So, if I buy a coin that I've never seen before on eBay with no return privilege, then that is "sight-unseen". Remember, images do not count! Descriptions do not count! Even certification does not count! It must be the actual coin in your hands and in your accepted viewing conditions.

 

However, if I buy a coin on eBay, and there is a return privilege, then that is a "SIGHT-SEEN" purchase. I am not committed to the purchase, because I can return it and get my money back.

 

Based on being asked this question quite a bit, I know that a lot of people misunderstand the correct usage of the terms. "Sight unseen" simply means two things:

 

#1 You do not see the coin in your hand under your accepted conditions.

#2 You are financially committed to the purchase without recourse.

 

Anything else, where you are not "stuck" with the coin and can get your money back, is always "sight seen".

 

James

[jom]

I agree with James. To me "sight-unseen" is without the return priviledge. Using that definition, I will NOT buy a coin "sight-unseen". Ever.

 

I miss out on a ton of auction material but I just can't bring myself to bid on something I can't return if I don't like it. I do live in So Cal so we get a good number of auctions I can lot view so it isn't so bad....

 

jom

[cpm9ball]

There are some misunderstandings about what "sight unseen" means. If you must commit to the purchase without ever seeing it first-hand, then that is strictly the only time it is "sight-unseen".

 

So, if I buy a coin that I've never seen before on eBay with no return privilege, then that is "sight-unseen". Remember, images do not count! Descriptions do not count! Even certification does not count! It must be the actual coin in your hands and in your accepted viewing conditions.

 

However, if I buy a coin on eBay, and there is a return privilege, then that is a "SIGHT-SEEN" purchase. I am not committed to the purchase, because I can return it and get my money back.

 

Based on being asked this question quite a bit, I know that a lot of people misunderstand the correct usage of the terms. "Sight unseen" simply means two things:

 

#1 You do not see the coin in your hand under your accepted conditions.

#2 You are financially committed to the purchase without recourse.

 

Anything else, where you are not "stuck" with the coin and can get your money back, is always "sight seen".

 

James

 

 

Chris

[IGWT]

"Sight unseen" simply means two things:

 

#1 You do not see the coin in your hand under your accepted conditions.

#2 You are financially committed to the purchase without recourse.

 

James -- Your understanding is the same as mine; and I thought -- wrongly, I guess -- that I explained the concept in my earlier posts. Thanks for clarifying and reinforcing.

 

Now that we're all on the same page, the question still stands: Do (or would) you ever defy the conventional wisdom of buying only sight-seen; and, if so, under what circumstances?

[Oldtrader3]

If you are narrowing the definition of "sight-unseen" to include no-return privilege, I agree with never buying a coin under a no-return policy. I am even hesitant in buying from Superior (auctions) anymore because they do not have a return privilege.

[Hoot]

One thing that aids any purchase via the internet for me is a good description

Mark -- Do you really let a good description substitute for the right to return a coin?

 

I had never equated a good description with no right to return a coin.

 

"Sight unseen" simply means two things:

 

#1 You do not see the coin in your hand under your accepted conditions.

#2 You are financially committed to the purchase without recourse.

 

Now that we're all on the same page, the question still stands: Do (or would) you ever defy the conventional wisdom of buying only sight-seen; and, if so, under what circumstances?

 

I had not considered a return privilege as offering a "sight seen" purchase, but I suppose that's a matter of definition. Yes, a return privilege offers a sight-seen determination of a coin, but it is by no means perfect. Some loss to mailing costs and time are inevitable and often the holders that coins are shipped in makes a quality assessment of a coin veritably impossible. Anyhow, in my own manner of thinking, the initial purchase of a coin, return privilege or not, is either sight-seen or sight-unseen, and that's what I was responding to in this thread.

 

As for the question of whether I'd make a sight-unseen purchase with no return privilege, the answer is basically no. However, I've made purchases with auction houses via internet images and descriptions that would not be returnable. Ever try getting your money out of Heritage or others if you don't like the coin you get from one of their auctions? It's easier and often a better financial plan to simply turn around and sell the coin more honestly.

 

Hoot

[James_OldeTowne]

Now to answer your question - again, this is using my understood definition that sight-unseen means you're "stuck" with the coin with no recourse. I have two answers.

 

AS A COIN DEALER, Yes, I would buy certain coins sight-unseen. Here are examples of coins that I would buy sight-unseen:

 

1. bulk 90% silver at spot + %

2. gold coins at spot + %

3. dateless buffalo nickels

4. proof sets in original packaging

5. foreign coins by the pound

6. coins with a verifiable pedigree, such as a 1793 Wreath cent with a pedigree

 

AS A COIN COLLECTOR, The only thing I would buy sight-unseen would be #6 above. Generally, I would not under any other circumstance buy coins sight-unseen, and that includes coins certified by NGC or PCGS.

 

James

[TomB]

As a collector I cannot imagine ever buying a coin sight-unseen, however, as a dealer it isn't that hard to pull the trigger on such a deal as long as the downside is essentially zero.

 

Now, onto other, more important things-

 

Here in Montana, I have to buy sight-unseen all the time.

 

Don't you have to do a lot of things sight-unseen, Hoot? I mean, you are wanted by the authorities in 40-odd states, aren't you?

[jom]

Don't you have to do a lot of things sight-unseen, Hoot? I mean, you are wanted by the authorities in 40-odd states, aren't you?

 

I've got his address! I've got his address! Na Na NaNa Naaaa

 

jom

[Hoot]

Don't you have to do a lot of things sight-unseen, Hoot? I mean, you are wanted by the authorities in 40-odd states, aren't you?

 

I've got his address! I've got his address! Na Na NaNa Naaaa

 

jom

 

I'm afraid that Tom also has my address, so I'll have to kill you both.

 

Hoot

[TomB]

I'm afraid that Tom also has my address, so I'll have to kill you both.

 

Perhaps we should post Hoot's address on the boards so that everyone knows his address! In that way, it may take an awfully long time before he gets around to killing us, jom. What do you think?

[Hoot]

I'm afraid that Tom also has my address, so I'll have to kill you both.

 

Perhaps we should post Hoot's address on the boards so that everyone knows his address! In that way, it may take an awfully long time before he gets around to killing us, jom. What do you think?

 

Hoot

Warm Springs Reconstitution Facility

Anaconda, MT 59778

 

Please knock before entering.

 

Hoot