Knowledge Leads To Numismatic Success

[supertooth]

For quite some time I have read these boards and offered advice. I have a hope that I have helped a few of our "young" coin people. But, I feel that they often miss three "Major" points. One is that-----"All of us can continually learn and we need to do that". How? By reading all the literature that you can get your hands on. Buy the books folks. Read and reread at every chance. And then "look at the coins" both at shows and at coin shops and, YES, on Ebay too. And, if you can be patient, do this "BEFORE YOU BUY". Secondly, you "MUST" learn how to grade properly YOURSELF. Sure, it is nice to have the coins in an NGC or PCGS or ANACS slab. But you must know, yourself, whether the coin in that slab is indeed an MS whatever it is. Reason being that, if the grade is wrong, when you go to resell the coin----most knowledgable people will be "buying the coin" and not the slab. And you could loose a great deal of money if the coin is not graded correctly. Now surely you could pay a knowledgable coin person or dealer to do it for you. And, if you do indeed trust them, then their % may be well worth it. But I ask you to know the grade "YOURSELF" as well. And, thirdly, you must learn how to tell a cleaned or dipped or altered or washed or curated or AT toned or wiped or "CONSERVED" coin. You must learn what the color of the coin looks like or should look like. You must learn about "hairlines" You just MUST LEARN to know whether a coin is indeed "original" or not. YOU JUST MUST LEARN or you will regret it later on down the road. And, if you do not want to do these 3 things, then my advice is to do one of two things. Either hire that "PRO" to do it for you----or please stop throwing your hard earned money down a deep hole and take up another hobby that does not require as much effort as the coin business certainly does. How do the rest of you view my thoughts? Agree or disagree. Have other points that you could add? Would appreciate how all of you feel. And thanks for responding ahead of time. Bob [supertooth]

[CTcollector]

I agree with you a 100%. I would hope everyone read your post and give your message some serious consideration. Knowledge leads to confidence and confidence allows you to select quality coins at fair value.

 

My thought is the desire to learn and be all you can be in the coin hobby is innate. Unfortunately, I don't think a good amount of collectors today have the passion for knowledge. Some do, but most don't. I see many people who are over anxious to dive in and throw good money at bad coins or willing to blindly profess allegiance to a dealer who clearly has them marked as a "fish". My approach is always offer advice and opinion, but never beat anyone over the head, they have to "WANT TO LEARN". You can lead a fellow collector to originality, but you can't make them appreciate it.......

 

I'm curious to other thoughts also.....

[michael]

[shanonmore]

Okay,

 

So just over a month ago we inherited a huge coin collection and I have spent from the time I wake up until the time I go to bed either on this computer trying to find out different things about different coins, or with my nose in a book trying to learn more.

 

Personally, I think the way I was brought into the hobby is the best way. I either have to learn about what I have here, or it's basically useless to myself and my children when they're older (plus, insurance etc.). I am learning I like some coins a lot more than others. I am learning that everytime I think I have a clue on how to grade a specific coin, I have to go back and do it again because I missed something......I bought software to keep track of this collection and I've deleted my entries five times now and I'm about to again. You'd laugh at my initial entries into Heritage's free database that puts everything at MS 65....I didn't know what that was and an hour later I thought hubby and I were millionairs(sp?)

 

Anyhow, the learning has become addicting as the hobby has so, I think it's more like if you like the hobby you'll WANT to learn about it. You don't have to. If someone wants to throw their money away let them, I just wish they'd do it on my auctions...I could use the money. In the meantime, my thirteen year old is picking up the books I have on coins and looking up every coin she gets. Plus, she'll now do dishes for a foreign coin or, a Buffalo with no date on it (that will come back to haunt me). On the downside the little ones are getting miffed about me spending so much time learning about all this....okay, I'm drifting off topic.

 

Wrapping it up, these boards have taught me more than most books or internet surfing have. Without the former two I wouldn't know what you guys were talking about, but each source of info has a different take on the hobby and coming in here with seasoned numismatists helps sort of bundle all the info together and help it make sense. Otherwise too many opinions/facts....can get too confusing and it doesn't make sense anymore.

 

I still can't believe my 1936 penny got a MS63 I didn't think you could see his ear well....it's stuff like that I need to work around because I am sticking to book definitions when there is more to it than just reading and research....there is also human error, and different opinions at different times. So, I think you need all three! This place has been a coin godsend! Thank you so much to everyone who has helped me with any opinion, good or bad...it helps me understand, and I'm just grateful you are patient with us newbies!!

[Oldtrader3]

We all like to help Newbies get into the hobby. In the long run, it helps us too. Plus, there are not very many women involved in coin collecting, for whatever reason. My ex treated coin collecting (especially pertaining to me) as some type of incurable insanity.

 

From the type of questions that you are asking, you seem to be grasping this whole thing pretty well (while packing boxes and looking after the kids). Keep reading the books and keep the coins until you are knowledgeable and comfortable selling them.

[shanonmore]

Thanks Oldtrader. I'm trying to hold onto the coins I just am getting rid of a couple to recoup some losses from the approx. six hundred I've spent learning about it all and getting supplies to preserve these coins (this doesn't include grading my first six). Bare in mind, I only bought 2x2's and mylar's to put the coins in...I'd really like to get better holders for some of them.

 

I can't believe not many women are into this, I mean the coins are pretty,and sometimes shiny, and they cost a lot....what more is needed?? I can say that and not get in trouble, Ha Ha! As soon as I saw those different numbers by the coins on Heritage and I went to look up what they meant, I was hooked. I am still surrounded by coins in boxes, supplies in boxes, and my computer desk is covered in little piles of coins that I want to look into or have a question about. Last night I was proud I figured out what a Laureated Head was on a France coin I had.

 

Okay, tooting my own horn here. On the down side, my children come in on occasion and ask when am I going to be done. So, lately I've tried to get in here in the early morning, and late at night. Then, in the bulk of the afternoon, I let the two little ones help me sort numerically or by denomination etc. Considering I have ALL girls, maybe I will be giving three more to the hobby.

 

But again thank you Oldtrader as you have been one of many who has given me advice....I'm sure I'll be bugging you for a while

[supertooth]

Hi Shanon! Like Oldtrader----I love the pictures of the kids----Got a granddaughter that is 2------girls are so wonderful. Anyway, my post was for new coin people like yourself. Just go slow and take your time. You have the rest of your life to get all of this. And it can overwhelm you at times. One minute you think that you have it figured out and then, in another minute, someone comes along and either tells you something different or brings up another circumstance that you had never even thought about. It can be difficult to learn by yourself----to teach yourself. I ought to know. I did it this way. But the books were great helpers. That and looking at the Ebay pictures. Do not buy anything---but just look at the pictures of the "slabbed" coins in the grades that you want to learn about. Pick out a coin you have and then try to compare it to those already graded and slabbed coins. Sure----it takes a forever amount of time. But, if you are enjoying it, that is what a "hobby" is all about. It is a place to go to relieve your stress----to relax. And it is wonderful to learn and to accomplish something. Just remember my dear that it takes "years" to get really good and "patience" will be your greatest virtue. And, like you have been doing----ASK QUESTIONS on these boards. Us old folks will mostly try to help as best we can. Bob [supertooth]

[San Peppy-migration]

Supertooth or anyone with good ideas!

 

I started collecting Morgans, CC's and GSA's about 7 years ago. I don't have that many (1882, 1883, 1884 GSA) and 1880 GSA that appears to be MS 64 grade. Can you tell me where I can go to find out just how much this coin, as well as my other GSA's, is worth.

 

Thanks

[supertooth]

Hi San Peppy! Your GSA dollars" worth depends on their condition. If ordinary MS coins in say MS60--61--62 condition, they would be anywhere from about 170 to 225 apiece. These would be the 82 or 83 or 84 CC coins. If however you would have MS 64--65 or higher coins, then you could easily get to 400--500 or much higher depending on whatever that MS grade would be. NGC could grade them for you if you so desire. Or, if you could post decent pictures on these boards, the guys could have a guess for you for just the asking. If you have the original COA papers with them, that will help in their value as well. Bob [supertooth]

[San Peppy-migration]

 

I have COA (numbered) papers on the 1880 GSA, the 1882's (I have 3), a couple 1883's (total of 5) and 1884 (total of 7). I am so glad you mentioned the COA papers. I was wondering if they helped the value or not. You don't see COA papers on the coin shows that I watch. Can't put pictures up, don't have a camera or scanner. I also have a couple of GSA's that only say "Silver Dollar."

 

What does it cost to have coins graded. I have several coins that I have put in hard plastic cases to cut down on wear or deteriorating condition. Do I have to remove them from the cases? I sure hope not.

 

Different subject: silver proofs and American Eagles from the US Mint - what would you say their grade is? MS 65, MS 66, MS 67 or higher (possibly).

 

Thanks Bob,

 

Claudia (San Peppy)

[Oldtrader3]

I have (5) kids, three boys and two girls, all grown and (4) grandchildren. None of my kids are interested in coins, but maybe in time. My interest came partly from my dad. He put together a complete set of Canadian Large Cents, years ago.

Unfortunately, for most of us, it takes years to become a really proficient Numismatist, even just specializing in a few series. I still learn stuff on this board, after 40 years of collecting.

[Woodwind-migration]

supertooth, you have some excellent points. The times I've gotten burned (not too many times and not too much money thankfully) were the times I didn't do my homework. I have about five cleaned Morgan Dollars and one whizzed one to remind me of this fact.

 

This is excellent advice for anyone who wants to spend a significant amount of money on the hobby and is necessary for those who expect to make money on their coins.

 

Unfortunately we live in a society where people want things now so most new collectors or non-collectors are not going to take the time to read books or coin message boards. Ideally, everyone that was looking to spend or "invest" hundreds or thousands of dollars on coins would seek advice from books or veteran collectors, but this is far from reality. Rightly or wrongly, coins are also frequently seen as good "investments" as evidenced by a recent widespread article explaining how the value of rare coins has outpaced stocks in the last 5 years so that's some additional hype to deal with.

 

The problem I see is messages like these are not getting out to the general non-collecting public. In the local paper of where I used to live I've seen my share of ads for SAEs, GAEs, slabbed Morgan Dollars, colorized state quarters and so on. However, I never saw an article, advertisement, or public service announcement in my paper cautioning non-collectors on the risks involved with purchasing even slabbed coins. I'm sure one reason is that the paper is essentially running an article that even slightly discourages the purchase of one of their advertisers' products, thus stripping the paper of potential advertising revenue.

 

Anyhow, those are my thoughts.

[supertooth]

Hi Claudia! I use NGC and ANACS myself for grading. NGC will take the GSA slabs and grade the Morgans. You do not have to remove the coins from the GSA slabs----NGC will go right around the GSA slab. Now----any coin [Morgan or otherwise] that is not in a GSA holder----that coin or coins do have to be removed from any individual holder that you may have it in. Example would be a Capital Plastics holder. Now, as to prices-----NGC charges 30 bucks per coin for coins over a value of 300.00----They have an "economy" package at 16 bucks per coin [ If the coin has a value of less than 300.00 ]. To go to NGC you must either be a member of the ANA [ American Numismatic Association ] or have an NGC member send them in for you---or an NGC dealer in your area can do it for you. Check all this by reading all the info about NGC on these board headings. The trick is to know the value of your coins ahead of time. Hence my advice to learn how to grade a little yourself. But, for the 82--83--84 CC Morgans, I might say that you could safely do an "economy" on them as most of those three dates----unless high grades---will stay under 300 dollar value. However, as I said before, if they are MS 65 coins, they jump up in value. If that were to be the case, then NGC would charge you an added fee to the 30 dollar level when they grade the coins. And, naturally, it would be worth it to get an MS65 grade----as that would probably double the value of the coin. Claudia----try to get yourself a copy of the "greysheets". They cost about 14 bucks for a single copy. These are "dealer to dealer" prices of the U.S. coins. Usually can be found on Ebay under "publications". Do not buy the 6 months or a year---wait till you see one at just the 14 dollar level----or email the guy----he will sell you just one copy. If you get the greysheets----this will give you current prices at the various grade levels. Then, if you get a good "grading" book, you can sit down and really get a little picture of what you have. Shame you cannot send pictures as we could do it for you here on these boards. Guys just love to guess the grades when people put pictures up. Keep asking questions!! Bob [supertooth]

[supertooth]

Sorry Claudia----I forgot to talk about the "American Eagles". I do not collect the so-called "modern" coins. Oh, I buy an occasional "silver" proof set. But my greatest likes are the older coins----especially Walking Liberty Half Dollars. However, any new coin that comes directly from the mint, should grade at least an MS66-67 in my opinion. And many will grade 68--69. Think about it! They should grade high. But it is only when you get into the Cameo and Deep Cameo higher grades of 68--69 that you really get additional profits. And this is done at the "whim" of the third party grading services. So---you young folks---like my son who loves "shiny" stuff---- even though he turns 30 this year----be careful placing an undue higher value onto a modern coin. It is ok to collect them but I advise you not to spend the "extra" bucks just to get a Cam or Dcam onto a holder. That additional value may not hold up over time. I may take some heat over that last statement but I am pretty sure guys like Oldtrader3 and Hoot and truthteller and CT collector etc.etc. will pretty much back me up on that statement. Bob [supertooth]