tj96 Posted Friday at 08:34 PM Share Posted Friday at 08:34 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted Friday at 08:47 PM Share Posted Friday at 08:47 PM I doubt that this Sacagawea dollar is counterfeit. It appears to have become severely corroded, possibly by having been buried in damp soil for some time. The outer layers of a "golden" dollar are composed of an alloy of 77% copper, 12% zinc, 7% manganese, and 4% nickel, which is bonded to an inner core of pure copper. These are all chemically active metals that would form various chemical compounds in an inappropriate environment. I think that even the worst counterfeiter would produce something that looked better than this! powermad5000 and Coinbuf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted Friday at 08:52 PM Share Posted Friday at 08:52 PM Just heavily corroded is what I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tj96 Posted Friday at 11:37 PM Author Share Posted Friday at 11:37 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted Saturday at 07:12 AM Share Posted Saturday at 07:12 AM I believe this to be an opinion of the grader who examined the coin which typically for that age should not have that level of corrosion on it and I believe that opinion to be incorrect. I relayed my experience in this part of the forum in the section of posting your recent US acquisitions regarding my 1811 half cent which is corroded but not quite this badly. My first submission of the particular cent I obtained was initially body bagged by NGC and described as Authenticity Unverifiable. The half cent having a straight clip at 7 o'clock I am sure also added to the situation as I can only guess between the corrosion, verdigris and the straight clip, a suitably sufficient weight could not be obtained with which to confidently state the coin being genuine. I had also read that surface issues could contribute to a coin returning as Authenticity Unverifiable. I sent numerous emails to NGC regarding the subject to no avail. As of this year, approximately four years after the initial submission of it, and resultant body bagged return, I resubmitted this coin for NCS conservation. The conservation was not performed and I was charged the $5 fee for NCS rejection, but the coin once again made it to the graders table along with my note on the submission form regarding there to be a significant weight reduction due to the corrosion and clip, and the coin this time returned as a details coin and in a slab as I can only guess the grader agreed with my assessment that it would be underweight considering these factors. In the case of your dollar, I highly doubt that there are any of these dollars counterfeited and especially would not be in the condition this coin is in. The high level of corrosion on it maybe obliterated some of the details and altered other details to the point that became the assessment, but I feel that assessment would be incorrect given the condition of the coin. The one thing I am a little baffled is why anybody would submit such a poor example of one of these dollars to any TPG for grading and slabbing as I am 100% sure the costs involved were a hit to the pocket book for a coin that is a heartbeat away from being returned to the earth through the process of corrosion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tj96 Posted Saturday at 12:19 PM Author Share Posted Saturday at 12:19 PM On 10/26/2024 at 3:12 AM, powermad5000 said: I am a little baffled is why anybody would submit such a poor example of one of these dollars to any TPG for grading and slabbing as I am 100% sure the costs involved were a hit to the pocket book for a coin that is a heartbeat away from being returned to the earth through the process of corrosion. Because the top three TPG'ers will not generally slab counterfeits. They will come back to you in body bags. ICG knows and understands counterfeits. I'm interested in counterfeits. A little more research on your part would be helpful. Fenntucky Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted Saturday at 12:55 PM Share Posted Saturday at 12:55 PM On 10/26/2024 at 8:19 AM, tj96 said: Because the top three TPG'ers will not generally slab counterfeits. They will come back to you in body bags. ICG knows and understands counterfeits. I'm interested in counterfeits. A little more research on your part would be helpful. Interesting. Where did you find yours and are there images of others in better condition? I'm not seeing much on the web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tj96 Posted Saturday at 06:29 PM Author Share Posted Saturday at 06:29 PM (edited) On 10/26/2024 at 8:55 AM, Fenntucky Mike said: Interesting. Where did you find yours and are there images of others in better condition? I'm not seeing much on the web. In circulation. Mid Atlantic East Coast. They were specifically struck intended to look this way. Plus they are lighter then 8.1 grams. They are walking into this country thru the southern border in the pockets of all the illegal aliens. Edited 23 hours ago by tj96 Fenntucky Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted 49 minutes ago Share Posted 49 minutes ago On 10/26/2024 at 7:19 AM, tj96 said: A little more research on your part would be helpful. I think it is a little poor on your part for not including the article in the beginning of your post. You should have been more informative about this slab on your end since you are the originator of the post and provide us with more information than just a statement and a picture of a slab if counterfeits are your specialty. I feel you posted in the way you did just to jam me up (and the others) the way you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tj96 Posted 33 minutes ago Author Share Posted 33 minutes ago (edited) On 10/27/2024 at 9:45 PM, powermad5000 said: I think it is a little poor on your part for not including the article in the beginning of your post. You should have been more informative about this slab on your end since you are the originator of the post and provide us with more information than just a statement and a picture of a slab if counterfeits are your specialty. I feel you posted in the way you did just to jam me up (and the others) the way you did. Some here jump to conclusions, state facts and opinions that aren't true. You proved my point. It's always helpful to learn and know who your audience is in advance. EDIT: Counterfeits aren't my specialty. I'm here trying to learn also. I just don't like being mislead. Edited 29 minutes ago by tj96 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
