MS per 100 Kennedy halfs in a federal reserve sealed bag 1 1

[VKurtB]

On 10/6/2024 at 12:30 PM, Halbrook Family said:

Wouldn't a bag mark give it a unc details grade though? I mean if you sent it in for grading. 

No.

[Sandon]

On 10/6/2024 at 1:30 PM, Halbrook Family said:

Wouldn't a bag mark give it a unc details grade though? I mean if you sent it in for grading. 

   NO! As defined in the "Red Book's" glossary, a "bag mark" is "[a] surface mark, usually a small nick, acquired by a coin through contact with others in a mint bag." All or virtually all coins struck for circulation and distributed in mint bags have bag marks and/or other abrasions resulting from coin-to-coin contact. The number, location and severity of such marks and abrasions largely constitute the grading component of "surface preservation", defined by PCGS as "the condition of the surface of a coin, notably marks and/or [minor] scratches." The numerical grade of a mint state (uncirculated) coin is "determined" by combining the coin's surface preservation level with three additional factors--its luster, strike, and overall "eye appeal." Bag marks on a coin, as they are expected in the normal distribution process, reduce the coin's numerical grade but unless exceptionally severe would not result in a "details" grade.   

On 10/6/2024 at 1:39 PM, LakeAnna said:

Ok all, again pardon my inexperience and I tried to look up. What's a bagmark? What does it look like?

    What I have written above should also answer your question. The coins in your bag of half dollars would be expected to have some bag marks from contact with each other, as well as from those in the containers in which they fell after being struck and larger bags that probably contained them before they were placed in the smaller bag for sale. Very few, if any, coins from such bag storage will grade MS 67 or higher, largely due to such bag marks and other abrasions. (As I previously noted, a 2016 half dollar would have to achieve a grade of at least MS 68 to be worth submitting to a grading service.)

   Here are images of an 1885-O Morgan dollar that NGC graded MS 62, with extensive bag marks (nicks and scratches) visible both on Liberty's face and other devices and in the fields. But for the coin having attractive luster and some "eye appeal" due to field to device contrast, it would likely have only graded MS 60:

Edited October 6 by Sandon
added "location" of bag marks as a factor

[powermad5000]

On 10/6/2024 at 12:30 PM, Halbrook Family said:

Wouldn't a bag mark give it a unc details grade though? I mean if you sent it in for grading

No. There are literally millions of Morgan dollars exhibiting differing levels and amounts of bag marks that are straight graded. Pretty much all of my Morgans have bag marks, and I have roughly half of the series. The amount of bag marks will pull the grade down, but bag marks are part of the production process and are treated as so. A lot of my Morgans are graded between MS 63 and MS 64 and they all have bag marks.

On 10/6/2024 at 12:39 PM, LakeAnna said:

Ok all, again pardon my inexperience and I tried to look up. What's a bagmark? What does it look like?

Bag marks can be found on just about every coin produced by the US Mint. The coins come out of the press and are ejected into a large bin. They slam into each other during this process. The Mint then empties this bin into bags of which the coins are counted and weighed. The coins in the bag then slide against each other as the bag is handled and moved around. "Bag marks" are somewhat of a generic term and used to identify tiny scratches made by the production process, not through circulation. Below is a photo of an obverse of one of my Morgan dollars which shows these bag marks on the cheek and neck of Liberty on the obverse. In photos, they typically show up as dark lines.

 

Edited October 7 by powermad5000
spelling

[Halbrook Family]

On Morgans. Would a coin with original surfaces on both coins. One having almost no bag marks and one that has a few. technically they could grade the same?  

[Sandon]

@Halbrook Family--I can't really distinguish what you mean between "almost no" and "a few" bagmarks. The other factors (luster, strike, "eye appeal") being excellent, the number and location of a few tiny bagmarks or other slight blemishes might make the difference between the 67, 68, and 69 grades. (Coins graded 67 or higher would generally have to be sharply struck and fully lustrous.)  I once had a look at one of the nine Morgan dollars that PCGS has graded MS 69, an 1880-S, and the coin had one or two almost imperceptible nicks on Liberty's face, with a full strike and exceptional "cartwheel" luster. These standards apply to all coins, not just Morgan dollars, but Morgan and Peace dollars (and other larger coins that tended to be stored in bags) are particularly notable for having moderate to heavy bagmarks. 

[powermad5000]

On 10/6/2024 at 7:08 PM, Sandon said:

These standards apply to all coins, not just Morgan dollars, but Morgan and Peace dollars (and other larger coins that tended to be stored in bags) are particularly notable for having moderate to heavy bagmarks.

To quote myself :

On 10/6/2024 at 3:18 PM, powermad5000 said:

Bag marks can be found on just about every coin produced by the US Mint.

I chose the example of Morgans for the exact same reason as @Sandon mentioned. In explaining bag marks and their appearance, it was just easier to choose a Morgan to use as an example for the reason that they are common on dollars in the series and for the photo I used that it would be easier for the viewer to see. 

 

On 10/6/2024 at 6:13 PM, Halbrook Family said:

On Morgans. Would a coin with original surfaces on both coins. One having almost no bag marks and one that has a few. technically they could grade the same? 

Technically, no. They should not grade the same. The location and amount of these bag marks on Morgans where we are talking about those in uncirculated grades are what determines the grade (as well as all other factors such as strike, luster, and unintentional small scratches). If a Morgan had only one or two bag marks, and another Morgan had three or four, they technically should not grade the same. Now, depending on the location of these, it is possible that the dollar having one or two on the cheek, and the other having four scattered in obscure locations say one along the hairline of Liberty, another blending in with the hair itself, another in the field running next to the neckline, and another at the top of Liberty's cap which seem to blend in with the design, there is a chance that the grader if not giving the coin enough attention during the inspection might miss one or two of those as blending in with the design and the two coins could end up with the same grade, but in a strict technical essence, the more bag marks, the lower the grade, and the more reduced the eye appeal will be.

[ldhair]

On 10/6/2024 at 12:30 PM, Halbrook Family said:

Wouldn't a bag mark give it a unc details grade though? I mean if you sent it in for grading. 

Not as a normal but I guess it would be possible if the coin took a really bad hit or maybe a bunch of bad hits.

[ldhair]

This one received an MS-60.