MS per 100 Kennedy halfs in a federal reserve sealed bag 1 1

[LakeAnna]

What would an estimate be out of 100 Kennedy Halfs in a sealed federal reaserve bag end up being of MS or MS65 and above quality? 

1 in a 100, 5, 10? 

Clearly they would be UNCIRCULATED. But Mint State?

[powermad5000]

Mint State implies Uncirculated. Mint state is defined as the surface of a coin showing no signs of wear. MS and UNC are used interchangeably in the hobby.

Without going into semantics that are unnecessary as applying to your question, the answer in short is nobody really knows the answer to this. When was the bag sealed? Right after the coins were minted? If so, how were the coins placed in the bag? Dumped in? How was the bag handled after being sealed, roughly? How many times was the bag moved? Was the bag tossed around without any level of care? If so, when? One time while being moved? Many times?

The point I am trying to make is that bag has had a life of its own since being sealed. And it was handled and moved many times for it to end up in the place it is currently in now. Only the bag knows the story and the answers to all of those questions. So, depending on circumstances, there could be many at MS 65 if the bag was handled with care. And there could be none if the bag was handled roughly and improperly and possibly thrown around a little bit. If it is a Mint sealed bag you could make the statement that everything in the bag will grade at a minimum of MS 60, but after that, there is no real way of knowing the possible condition of all the coins in the bag without opening it up and checking each individual coin.

[LakeAnna]

Yes that all makes sense. I guess what I was aiming for is a MS coin representative of 1% of that year/mint or .01, or greater. I was attempting to put it into frame of reference.

Part of this other than curiousosity is also there seems to be very high supply of common modern coins in my lifetime at MS65 - 69. Would it be fair then to say a fairly high percentage remain MS grade level? I totally understand rareness when we go back as early as maybe 60s, and definitely into 1800s-1900. 

[RWB]

Original US Mint bags contained $1,000 in half dollars. The smallest quantity used for the Federal Reserve System was $250 (500 half dollars). Your bag is therefore fake.

In an original bag of halves, all 2,000 will be uncirculated (i.e. "Mint State".) When the FRB system re-bagged coins, they were usually all uncirculated if at the beginning of a year, but later were a mix of coins moving through commercial banks and FRBs.

[LakeAnna]

@RBW that's odd I purchased directly from us mint? With 100 coins in a sewn shut Federal Reserve bag with the Federal Reserve tag sewn into the stitching as well? 

[LakeAnna]

 

@RBW I just check the mint site and they sell the exact same thing. Mine is 2016, still sealed in shipping box to my dad. 

 

 

[Sandon]

   "Mint state" and "uncirculated" are synonymous.

   The reason that most modern coins that you see in certified holders are in higher mint state grades is that only such pieces have any chance of being worth the cost of certification. Knowledgeable submitters have substantial knowledge of grading standards themselves and only submit coins that they have reason to believe are worthy of submission. Even they often receive unpleasant surprises, and many of the coins they submit end up being sold for less than the cost of submission. Learning how to grade coins yourself is essential for success as a collector!

    Coins made for circulation, including those like yours sold in bulk to collectors, probably grade no better than MS 64 on average when removed from a mint bag. However, the vast majority of modern collectors' issues that are carefully manufactured and separately handled and packaged, such as proof and commemorative issues, grade MS or PF 69 or 70. Those graded "69" by grading services are often regarded as "culls"!

   A 2016-P or D Kennedy half dollar wouldn't be worth substantially more than the standard grading fees and related shipping and processing costs unless it graded MS 68, the highest grade awarded for either of these issues at NGC. See 2016 P 50C MS | Coin Explorer | NGC (ngccoin.com), 2016 D 50C MS | Coin Explorer | NGC (ngccoin.com). The "Modern Tier" grading fee alone per coin is $19, and in MS 65 each coin only has a retail list value on the NGC Price Guide of $12.50. (Grading wouldn't be worthwhile for coins that grade less than MS 67 or 68 even at dealers' bulk rates.) 

[LakeAnna]

@Sandon

 

Thank you for all that detail and explanation. I am thinking my dad got this because it was a very low mintage year in many many years. If I read correctly these were only sold through the mint and not put into general circulation. Does that sound correct? 

 

To date it remains sealed and untouched for many years. I can only guess he was speculating (like many probably did) if that was the case and got them and threw them in the safe. I will do just do the same. 

 

It's interesting RWB states it's fake. I truly doubt that given I have found the same thing currently sold through the mint. Even though kind of neat I guess if he purchased rolls instead there might be a slightly better chance of finding a higher quality one simply because how it would be stored.   

 

Not on this matter, I am still confused how many of fairly new coins receive a MS69 grade which I read are mass gradings (typicialy done by PT Collage employees on side job. Just gives me less confidence on the 69's in the collection. 

[RWB]

On 9/27/2024 at 12:27 PM, LakeAnna said:

 

@RBW I just check the mint site and they sell the exact same thing. Mine is 2016, still sealed in shipping box to my dad. 

 

 

OK. Now I see what you're talking about.

These are not commercial bags used for business. They are "tourist trap" bags assembled to sell at inflated prices to collectors and others. Each bag contains 200 half dollars and all the coins should be uncirculated (i.e., "Mint State"). The bags are filled at a contractor's facility from large scale packages shipped by the Mints. There is no assurance of freedom from damage or surface marks.

PS: No commercial bank will ever see these unless someone passes one across the counter. They are not a regular part of the FRB's coinage distribution system. The paper seal on the bag is a modified Treasury Department seal and not that of the Federal Reserve System. The Treasury seal looks like the one on your paper currency.

Edited September 27 by RWB

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/27/2024 at 2:47 PM, RWB said:

These are not commercial bags used for business. They are "tourist trap" bags assembled to sell at inflated prices to collectors and others. Each bag contains 200 half dollars...

I believe these Mint bags are a bit too unwieldy to be sold to tourists. Two hundred halves is quite a haul.

Rather, I think these were produced for the on-line crowd. I would imagine a nice chunk of the change charged pays for postage + s/h.

I hope for the OP's sake, her bag contains coins that display a heretofore undiscovered error or similar anomaly.

[Sandon]

On 9/27/2024 at 1:11 PM, LakeAnna said:

I am thinking my dad got this because it was a very low mintage year in many many years. If I read correctly these were only sold through the mint and not put into general circulation. Does that sound correct? 

 

     The facts you state in the second quoted sentence are correct, but you are misinterpreting them. Each of the 2016-P and the 2016-D half dollars, along with all circulation quality issues from 2002 through 2019, were only sold directly to the public for a premium in rolls, bags and uncirculated coin sets. The reported mintage for each of the 2016 issues is 2,100,000 pieces, which may not include the 296,582 of each included in the uncirculated coin sets. This is not a low mintage, especially for coins that all ended up in the hands of collectors, dealers, and mass marketers. 

    This supply will likely fulfill the demand from collectors for several generations. If you are young, it might be worthwhile to save them, as it is possible that they will be worth some premium decades from now. I bought a two-coin roll set each year from about 2009 to 2018 and would be lucky to get my money back for them at this point.

[LakeAnna]

Thank you so collection value, and family value, not nessisary a chance there is something inside it worth opening to see. Since it cost nothing basically just coin value. So just leave alone.

[RWB]

On 9/27/2024 at 3:06 PM, Henri Charriere said:

I believe these Mint bags are a bit too unwieldy to be sold to tourists. Two hundred halves is quite a haul.

If you've come across a heard of tourists, especially the Southern Buffalo variety, they have the added mass to handle these little bags quite well!

[powermad5000]

A very long time ago, I won an auction for a US Treasury sealed roll of Sacagawea dollars, with full intent on opening this sealed roll for grading purposes. Upon inspection, I pulled two dollars from this roll and submitted them for grading which both returned MS 68. The rest of the dollars in the roll had numerous contact marks, enough of which I knew these would likely grade as MS 64-MS 66 with maybe one an MS 67. The point I am making to you about this response I have for you is that these were in a tightly packed roll, not loose in a bag where they have the ability to slide against each other, as well as the rims of other coins contacting the surfaces of adjacent coins in the bag. Despite the grading of the two returned, the deal was basically a wash as far as the actual money spent was concerned. It cost me $ to win the roll at auction. It cost me $ to submit for grading and it cost me $ to pay for return shipping. Considering the value listed in the price guide, the entire situation basically was a break even. The difference is yours are loose in a bag and mine were in a tightly packed roll with no chance of causing damage to each other.

This bag you have, if I may so recommend will decades in the future most likely gain a modest value ONLY as a US Treasury sealed bag. Should the bag be opened for any reason, collectors will immediately and probably correctly assume the contents were cherrypicked and the best specimens pulled out of the bag, which would make the competing bids very little above face value for the bag. It's value right now is in the fact that it IS sealed. I would leave it as is. It just depends on how many years you are able to store this bag without selling it. The more years you can may help add a little to its value to make it worth more than the cost of acquiring the bag. Here is a picture of the roll I opened. I knew the seal on your bag right when I saw it because it was on the ends of the roll I had.

 

[LakeAnna]

Thank you Powermad5000

I completely understand this, and FYI the bag of coins was given to me by father's stuff and sat in his safe (with easy to identify mid/high value items). I just was not knowledgeable of this type of item. All I found was lower mintage (as compared to most years) and understand most likely will remain a high survival rate bc sold to collectors. Say in comparison some items may only be in 100k or less range.

My question originated from thought of potential other than a bag of halfs. There is high sentimental value anyways. 

I have been a long time bullion collector and a rookie numasmatic collector. 

I appreciate people like you who explain vs some who criticize or insult for asking questions in forum designed to interact with experienced collectors.

 

Thanks

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/28/2024 at 12:06 AM, powermad5000 said:

.... The difference is yours are loose in a bag and mine were in a tightly packed roll with no chance of causing damage to each other....

 

This is a key point.  Irrespective of coin composition, i.e., silver vs. clad, the coins in a roll will fare better than those in a bag and every precaution must be taken to avoid unnecessary jostling to the extent possible and simply hope for the best.

[LakeAnna]

Yes understand 

[VKurtB]

On 9/27/2024 at 1:47 PM, RWB said:

OK. Now I see what you're talking about.

These are not commercial bags used for business. They are "tourist trap" bags assembled to sell at inflated prices to collectors and others. Each bag contains 200 half dollars and all the coins should be uncirculated (i.e., "Mint State"). The bags are filled at a contractor's facility from large scale packages shipped by the Mints. There is no assurance of freedom from damage or surface marks.

PS: No commercial bank will ever see these unless someone passes one across the counter. They are not a regular part of the FRB's coinage distribution system. The paper seal on the bag is a modified Treasury Department seal and not that of the Federal Reserve System. The Treasury seal looks like the one on your paper currency.

No, these bags of 200 Kennedy Half Dollars are printed, packed, and sewn closed AT THE DENVER MINT!!! They are then sent to the fulfillment center after 100 Philly and 100 Denver halves are  enclosed. I saw the printing press myself during my tour of the Denver Mint during the ANA Summer Seminar. The press was in the upstairs section where the mint tour attendees walked. It is literally used ONCE PER YEAR to print the 200 coin Kennedy half bags. No dusty archive was needed to know this. I just WENT THERE AND PERSONALLY ASKED QUESTIONS!!! Amazing technique, huh? I do that a lot. 

Edited October 1 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

To answer the OP’s original question, out of 200 halves in that bag, all 200 are mint state. That is certain.

Most are MS63-MS65. There are probably a dozen or more MS66’s, and maybe a small handful of MS67’s. If you are extremely lucky, you might find a MS68. 
 

How do I know this? Personal experience. No so-called “research” (as if…), no archives, no documents. Only firsthand experience. You’re welcome.

Here. I bought it. I searched the bag. I selected it. I submitted it. The highest Philly I found was probably a 66.

 

Your mileage may vary, and the bags are better or worse each year. It is a crapshoot. 

Edited October 1 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 10/1/2024 at 4:54 PM, VKurtB said:

.... How do I know this? Personal experience. No so-called “research” (as if…), no archives, no documents. Only firsthand experience. You’re welcome.... 

A lot of carom shots in your replies!  🤣  

To the OP:  Lake-w-anna (my nickname for you!) you've got a lot of spunk!  As there is no right or wrong way to collect, I say collect what your heart desires and you won't go wrong.  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/27/2024 at 11:01 AM, LakeAnna said:

What would an estimate be out of 100 Kennedy Halfs in a sealed federal reaserve bag end up being of MS or MS65 and above quality? 

1 in a 100, 5, 10?  Clearly they would be UNCIRCULATED. But Mint State?

Wouldn't MOST or ALL of the coins qualify as MS or UNC.....bagmarks do NOT reduce a coin to AU, right ?

[VKurtB]

On 10/1/2024 at 8:14 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Wouldn't MOST or ALL of the coins qualify as MS or UNC.....bagmarks do NOT reduce a coin to AU, right ?

Yup, correct. None of which precludes a TPGS from getting one or more of the grades incorrect, our present hosts’ hurt feelings notwithstanding. Grading firms make errors in BOTH directions with unfortunate regularity, our hosts perhaps less often than others.

Edited October 2 by VKurtB

[VKurtB]

On 10/1/2024 at 7:52 PM, Henri Charriere said:

A lot of carom shots in your replies!  🤣

You know very well, better than most, what I am all about, and what I am NOT about is sparing anyone’s feelings. Consider me the grizzled USMC drill sergeant coin collector, if it helps form a mental picture. I have a low tolerance for whiny snowflakes… and authors. Authors too.

Edited October 2 by VKurtB

[ldhair]

On 10/1/2024 at 8:14 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Wouldn't MOST or ALL of the coins qualify as MS or UNC.....bagmarks do NOT reduce a coin to AU, right ?

I'll agree, bagmarks do not reduce a coin to AU but you can create wear/rub on the surfaces with poor handling of the bag. It only takes a bit of rub on the surfaces for a TPG to give it an AU grade. It's up to the care the bag received over the years. 

[LakeAnna]

Well All:

Thank you all for your experience and it is easy for me to mute out insults. I really appreciate those of you who replied with positive comments either good or poor about these type of coins. It will remain in my collection. Outside of this question I finished to date my "life album" every year of my life the proof coin (not sets although I did receive in my dads stuff from 1948 into 2019), so I will continue but also wanted an album with each denomination together. So 1c, 5c, 10c, 25c (uhhgg past the Washington Quarter just too much), 50c, and I stuck to SBA & Sacagawea (I have all presidents in separate sets). Now it will be easy to just keep up. 

[powermad5000]

On 10/1/2024 at 9:55 PM, LakeAnna said:

Now it will be easy to just keep up.

It is amazing if one allows several years to pass without collecting all of the denominations, just how hard it can be to catch back up. 

[powermad5000]

On 10/1/2024 at 8:34 PM, VKurtB said:

Consider me the grizzled USMC drill sergeant coin collector, if it helps form a mental picture.

I have a mental picture of you having the same effect of R. Lee Ermey from Full Metal Jacket, but pacing around an ANA seminar table and ranting about "New pukes and your error coins with filled mintmarks..."  

[VKurtB]

On 10/2/2024 at 10:34 PM, powermad5000 said:

I have a mental picture of you having the same effect of R. Lee Ermey from Full Metal Jacket, but pacing around an ANA seminar table and ranting about "New pukes and your error coins with filled mintmarks..."  

Then you have EXACTLY the image I’m going for. Irony: I never spent a day in the military. SOMEBODY has to keep these little “don’t hurt my widdle feeeeeewings” snowflakes in line. And I have an image in MY mind when I say that - basically ALL of the kids my kid hung out with while he was in school. Stinking purple hair wearing, pierced face having, creepy goth looking pantywaists. My contemporaries ruined an entire generation of people - the millennials and Gen Zers. 
 

Remember the GEICO ad in which R. Lee was a therapist and he threw a tissue box at his patient in disgust? That character is my hero. “Ya jackwagon.”

Edited October 3 by VKurtB

[Halbrook Family]

On 10/1/2024 at 7:17 PM, ldhair said:

I'll agree, bagmarks do not reduce a coin to AU but you can create wear/rub on the surfaces with poor handling of the bag. It only takes a bit of rub on the surfaces for a TPG to give it an AU grade. It's up to the care the bag received over the years. 

Wouldn't a bag mark give it a unc details grade though? I mean if you sent it in for grading. 

[LakeAnna]

Ok all, again pardon my inexperience and I tried to look up. What's a bagmark? What does it look like?