Why coins get an (Improperly cleaned) grade for NEWBIES 1 1

[Shrimpy D Luffy]

Does anyone know why grading companies use the words improperly cleaned? just asking because from what I’ve been told is that cleaning your coins is a big no no and one should never clean there coins before grading. But it’s kinda contradicting to use the words improperly cleaned because that would insinuate that there is a proper way to clean your coins. If so can anyone shed some light on how one should go about cleaning their coins without risk of getting an improperly cleaned grade.

Thanks.

Edited Saturday at 02:40 AM by Shrimpy D Luffy

[powermad5000]

The advice is DO NOT CLEAN YOUR COINS!

That said, you are going to hear from some experts on here who know some things about this topic, but done incorrectly and the coin will be forever irreparably damaged and its value severely impacted. NCS conservation service can effectively "clean" a coin without impacting its original surface, but it is not a magic wand to make a coin look like it was just minted. Certain stains and discolorations that have penetrated below the initial surface of a coin will not be completely removed even with the best conservation efforts. That said, conservation is NOT cleaning. Conservation is the removal of surface contaminants from the surface of a coin and stabilizing its surface to prevent further damage. Most cleaning done to coins uses caustic chemicals or abrasive means to remove surface imperfections which would be cleaning and improper. Coins in the past have also been "dipped" but that is another process if done incorrectly will earn a details grade for cleaning. 

At least for NGC, I have noticed that in my early submissions a decade or so ago that every coin returning with a details grade for cleaning was labelled as Improperly Cleaned. In the last couple years, I have noticed that has changed to just Cleaned with the word improperly not used. Maybe for me that is because I am selecting "better" coins to submit and am only getting the occasional cleaned details grade in return which I check to see what I maybe missed and there have been a couple that I still can't see evidence of cleaning. I guess others would have to chime in on their recent submissions in the last year to see if the word improperly is just something not being used by NGC anymore.

To summarize my comment, for newbies, DO NOT CLEAN YOUR COINS! If you are not fully knowledgeable in the proper processes and things to use so as not to compromise the surface of a coin, DON'T DO IT! Send your stuff to NCS instead.

[Shrimpy D Luffy]

On 9/13/2024 at 8:55 PM, powermad5000 said:

The advice is DO NOT CLEAN YOUR COINS!

That said, you are going to hear from some experts on here who know some things about this topic, but done incorrectly and the coin will be forever irreparably damaged and its value severely impacted. NCS conservation service can effectively "clean" a coin without impacting its original surface, but it is not a magic wand to make a coin look like it was just minted. Certain stains and discolorations that have penetrated below the initial surface of a coin will not be completely removed even with the best conservation efforts. That said, conservation is NOT cleaning. Conservation is the removal of surface contaminants from the surface of a coin and stabilizing its surface to prevent further damage. Most cleaning done to coins uses caustic chemicals or abrasive means to remove surface imperfections which would be cleaning and improper. Coins in the past have also been "dipped" but that is another process if done incorrectly will earn a details grade for cleaning. 

At least for NGC, I have noticed that in my early submissions a decade or so ago that every coin returning with a details grade for cleaning was labelled as Improperly Cleaned. In the last couple years, I have noticed that has changed to just Cleaned with the word improperly not used. Maybe for me that is because I am selecting "better" coins to submit and am only getting the occasional cleaned details grade in return which I check to see what I maybe missed and there have been a couple that I still can't see evidence of cleaning. I guess others would have to chime in on their recent submissions in the last year to see if the word improperly is just something not being used by NGC anymore.

To summarize my comment, for newbies, DO NOT CLEAN YOUR COINS! If you are not fully knowledgeable in the proper processes and things to use so as not to compromise the surface of a coin, DON'T DO IT! Send your stuff to NCS instead.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this subject. I love these chat boards I learn something new every time I come on here. So for all the newbie’s like myself DO NOT CLEAN YOUR COINS‼️

[Sandon]

   The term "cleaning" as used by grading service refers to any abrasive or chemical process that damages the surface of a coin. Collectors seek coins with original surfaces, and coins that exhibit hairline scratches from abrasive treatments, even from being rubbed with a cloth, or an unnatural appearance from treatment with chemicals are regarded as impaired by "cleaning". The use of a solvent such as acetone that removes surface dirt or contaminants without abrasively or chemically altering the surface is referred to as "conservation" and not regarded as "cleaning". The careful use of anti-tarnish solutions on silver coins that does not result in a "washed out" appearance is not regarded as "cleaning" but usually impairs a coin's luster and may result in a lower grade on mint state coins.

   I have an NGC custom registry set with additional explanations and images of examples of coins that have been "cleaned". See Characteristics of "Cleaned" Coins - Custom Set (collectors-society.com).

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Good advice and resources from @Sandon.  I would agree that you will do more harm than good and will ruin your coin.  The biggest problem is whatever you do, you can't undo.  Once that original surface is gone - it's gone.  I am glad to see you hanging out and learning a bit.  I love when new collectors learn from guys like @Sandon, take heed of the advice, and work toward developing skills for yourself.  Learning coins takes some time, but if you follow the good advice and drop the bad (you will learn which is which) you will pick it up faster than you think.  

This is a great hobby, and you can collect at any level... learning a few of these nuances will only help you get more from numismatics. Have a great weekend.

[Shrimpy D Luffy]

On 9/13/2024 at 9:48 PM, Sandon said:

   The term "cleaning" as used by grading service refers to any abrasive or chemical process that damages the surface of a coin. Collectors seek coins with original surfaces, and coins that exhibit hairline scratches from abrasive treatments, even from being rubbed with a cloth, or an unnatural appearance from treatment with chemicals are regarded as impaired by "cleaning". The use of a solvent such as acetone that removes surface dirt or contaminants without abrasively or chemically altering the surface is referred to as "conservation" and not regarded as "cleaning". The careful use of anti-tarnish solutions on silver coins that does not result in a "washed out" appearance is not regarded as "cleaning" but usually impairs a coin's luster and may result in a lower grade on mint state coins.

   I have an NGC custom registry set with additional explanations and images of examples of coins that have been "cleaned". See Characteristics of "Cleaned" Coins - Custom Set (collectors-society.com).

Thank you so much @Sandon for sharing your custom registry set with us. Wow that 1913 nickel you sent it to NCS made me cringe 😬. As the coin was toned beautifully before sending it to NCS and the results after were night and day. I would encourage newbies (like myself) to take a look at @Sandon custom registry set link to learn what cleaned coins look like before purchasing coins.(especially on eBay) After seeing the unfortunate situation that happened to @Sandonat NCS it probably would be best (at least for me) to not have your coins cleaned at all. Though I’m sure most coins that have been sent to NCS have turned out fine. That 1913 nickel is a great example how it can go absolutely wrong.

Edited Saturday at 03:54 PM by Shrimpy D Luffy

[Shrimpy D Luffy]

 

before and after of @Sandon 1913 nickel.

[Mike Meenderink]

Hello as I am sure you have seen my posts here in regard to coin conservation and preservation, I will state just one thing. You must have a deep knowledge of chemistry, metallurgy, corrosion processes as well as coin grading and evaluation skills to determine 1. IF the coin can be conserved. 2. WHY the coin needs to be conserved. 3. HOW the coin should be conserved and finally 4. SHOULD the coin even be conserved at all or left as is. This has taken me YEARS of study and experimenting discovering new ways to identify and professionally conserve all types of coins. This work is not considered cleaning as such because the contaminants on the coin such as blue green verdigris can be removed without harming the original surface. However occasionally conservation work REVEALS a PRIOR cleaning which could not be foreseen. This can happen often. Improper cleaning is just a way of describing a particularly obvious rough cleaning beyond a light cleaning which also damaged the surface. Do yourselves a favor and don't mess with conserving coins until you have the knowledge and the confidence to really do it right. Once you do its actually pretty easy. Below 1897 IHC before and after conservation. Cheers!

Edited Sunday at 12:02 AM by Mike Meenderink

[Henri Charriere]

You have been here a few weeks and with further exploration of the various Forums, going back a year or so, you shall discover comments which include discussions of the positives and negatives of such elixirs as acetone, distilled water, vinegar and even EVOO -- shorthand for Extra Virgin Olive Oil.

These are mainly for the information, education and edification of arguably card-carrying, certified, credentialed Mad Scientists and the benefit of those who are thoroughly acquainted with their proper use.  I suggest you leave this rarefied strata of the hobby to those intimately familiar with it, and the gentlemen who toil thereabouts unceasingly to their own devices.

For members and itinerant lurkers, the Golden Rule applies:  DO NOT CLEAN YOUR COINS.  Your average collectors might be tempted to try their hands at this.  I would not.  The aforementioned group have years of experience amongst them and know better than to test-drive untried procedures on a coin with value.  Many a valuable coin has been irreparably harmed by amateurs.  My advice:  let it be.

[RWB]

"Improperly cleaned" is NOT a coin grade. It is a description of damage/abuse to the original surfaces of a coin.

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/15/2024 at 2:25 PM, RWB said:

"Improperly cleaned" is NOT a coin grade. It is a description of damage/abuse to the original surfaces of a coin.

Somewhat related to the Topic, it appears the West Coast TPGS assigns, for lack of a better term, what it terms are "Details" grades -- going numerically, well into the 90's, which may blur the distinction. 

EDIT:

No Grade coins returned WITH encapsulation...

82 - Filed Rims

91- Questionable Color

92 - Cleaning

93 - Planchet flaw

94 - Altered surface

95 - Scratched

97 - Environmental Damage

98 - Damage

No Grade coins returned WITHOUT encapsulation...

83 - Peeling lamination

86 - Authenticity unverifiable

90 - Counterfeit

96 - No Service

99 - PVC residue.

🐓

Edited Monday at 12:53 AM by Henri Charriere
Korrek typo/add "grading" codes.