"Perpetual Penny Paradox." 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

"America Must Free Itself from the Tyranny of the Penny," The New York Times, September 1, 2024.

If someone should be so kind as to creating a link to the above article published in today's edition of The New York Times Magazine -- also available for free with a feature enabling the interested viewer to have it read to him (54 mins.) on Google, you may wish to make a link for the benefit of our membership, or as ""Oldhoop" put it, look it up yourself.

Edit:  No need to look it up. Moderation was kind enough to allow me to provide most of the answers.  

If you are curious to know what a cent costs to produce and distribute, which country produces eighty (80) percent of the world's money, who by Law, is ultimately responsible for producing cents or barring their further production, you may wish to seek out this read

I have never gotten more involved in a story I ordinarily have just a passing interest in, than this one.

A special heads-up here to @cladking , @Coinbuf , those who venerate the cent and those who would seek to abolish it, the sooner, the better.  Rounding up and down? It's all explored here. The cent, besides Canada, has been done away with in two other countries without fanfare. Check it out!

(Posted, deleted in part, edited at the discretion of Moderators.)

Edited September 3 by Henri Charriere
Provide a Notice of Edit

[VKurtB]

It’s not a paradox. It’s American ignorance and bullheadedness. 

[Zebo]

I might be able to find the article, but I might have to scrape off all of the bird droppings. 

[J P M]

I saw that article or something like it. It was just a rant with a lot of words to try to get you to read one of the writers' other articles.

[VKurtB]

The Sunday New York Times magazine section. The only news in the article is that there was nothing new in there. 

[Henri Charriere]

Horrible feedback!  Absolutely atrocious! The New York Times is nothing but a murder of crows writing in from all over the world.

Furthermore, it is quite evident NONE of you had read the entire, engrossing piece that took a narrator 54+ minutes to read in its entirety.  What a waste!

@VKurtB :  It is no big secret you, as well as 99.44% of the Forum, do not care for the Times. I knew that before I even got to know you.  Coin collectors, unbeknownst to me when I first became interested in the hobby, are, as I believe you once put it, "a conservative's conservative." Understood and accepted. 

(I also discovered hobbyists are bereft of any sense of humor. For example, Charmy submits an intense, on-site coin show report with tons of pics and her reward -- a shameless retort about Penny, her adorable cat.

***

There is only one person/official who, as provided by Federal law "shall mint and issue denominations of coins in the amounts he/she decides are necessary to meet the needs of the United States."  That person, incidentally, has been characterized as "one of the most accomplished economists of our time." WHO IS THAT OFFICIAL?  WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE GOVERNMENT AGENCY?

 

[ "Vaporizing every single cent would have virtually no effect on the amount of money we have in circulation." ]

Who adopted the concept of rounding purchases such as $6.00 to $5.99, from what city, and why?  Tip to @The Neophyte Numismatist there is an interesting aside here about the role the cash register played.

[ "Two-thirds of the [cents] produced in the 30 year' period, 1969 to 1999 have disappeared (dropped out of circulation)"]  What say you @cladking ?

["Transactions paid with cash are made just 18% of the time."]

The two countries, in addition to Canada, which dispensed with the cent were New Zealand (1989) and Australia (1992) with no consequences.

[ "If significant numbers of Americans rely on cents to make purchases, there is no evidence of it." ]

Bold Comment:

"The U.S. Mint, which had made all coins in-house since 1792, was unequipped to produce zinc discs electroplated with copper, beginning July 1981."

WHAT IS THE NAME OF THE COMPANY, LOCATED IN WHAT CITY AND STATE, TO WHICH THE U.S. MINT HAS OUTSOURCED THIS WORK?

Final quote:   "One country's mint shephereds its coins through every stage of their life cycle, forecasting the need for them, producing them, distributing them, recirculating them and retiring them -- and [has never experienced signs of any coin shortage] even through the COVID-19 pandemic.  In the U.S. these responsibilities are divided among a hodgepodge of public and private entities which is why the issue has never been addressed or resolved.

***

Excellent article!  Unfortunately, due to failing eyesight, to quote my most worthy contender, the late Oldhoop, I urge interested members to: "Look it up." Minus a link, simply type in: "New York Time cent article today," and voila!

***

🐓  :  What happened to your eyesight, anyway?

Q.A.:  In a word, "Roosteritis." It took me 5 years to create a fine set and made me appreciate the commitment Larry made to monitoring his record-breaking thread off and on daily for nearly 20 years.

 🐓   :  I don't think this Forum deserves the likes of you.

Q.A.:  It's okay.  If a single member, or lurker, learns something, it will have made the effort all the more worthwhile.

(Posted at the discretion of Moderation.  )

 

 

 

Edited September 2 by Henri Charriere
Routine die polishing.

[J P M]

On 9/2/2024 at 5:56 PM, Henri Charriere said:

[ "Vaporizing every single cent would have virtually no effect on the amount of money we have in circulation." ]

It will happen anyway once all the zinc coins get exposed and rot all that will be left will be the old copper cents and there are still plenty of those.

[EarlyUS.com]

Here's the true "penny paradox".

You drop a cent from 12" above the ground.  After some time, it falls 6", leaving 6" remaining.  After more time, it falls another 3" for a total of 9", leaving 3" left to fall.  After some more time, it falls 1.5", having now descended 10.5" from where it started.  Then it has only 0.75" left, and so on.  At this rate, the distance fallen continues to be cut in half - but how, then, does it ever reach zero if there is always distance left to be cut in hafl?  In other words, how does the cent ever actually land on the ground?

Edited September 3 by EarlyUS.com

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/2/2024 at 8:35 PM, EarlyUS.com said:

Here's the true "penny paradox".

You drop a cent from 12" above the ground.  After some time, it falls 6", leaving 6" remaining.  After more time, it falls another 3" for a total of 9", leaving 3" left to fall.  After some more time, it falls 1.5", having now descended 10.5" from where it started.  Then it has only 0.75" left, and so on.  At this rate, the distance fallen continues to be cut in half - but how, then, does it ever zero if there is always distance left to be cut in hafl?  In other words, how does the cent ever actually land on the ground?

Old Abbott & Costello joke...

When you were 10, she wasn't born yet.

You are 30 and marry her when she is 20.  

When you are 50, she's 40.

When you're 70, she's 60.

How long before you're both the same age?

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/2/2024 at 7:06 PM, J P M said:

It will happen anyway once all the zinc coins get exposed and rot all that will be left will be the old copper cents and there are still plenty of those.

The author goes into considerable depth about this. If what she has set forth is true, the Zincolnization of cents will lead to its inevitable downfall.  The "problem" will solve itself.

[Rob’s Coins]

I found it interesting…

Edited September 4 by Rob’s Coins

[Henri Charriere]

On 9/4/2024 at 7:21 PM, Rob’s Coins said:

I found it interesting…

Thanks for the link!  There is a wealth of information reported in a pleasant folks manner.  I believe member @J P M is correct.in stating the "problem" will resolve itself as this generation of wannabe cents fail from the inside out.  Good riddance!  The author makes a convincing argument that this is a sensitive subject matter for many but is unsustainable. The economic factor outweighs all other considerations.

[cladking]

On 9/2/2024 at 7:35 PM, EarlyUS.com said:

Here's the true "penny paradox".

You drop a cent from 12" above the ground.  After some time, it falls 6", leaving 6" remaining.  After more time, it falls another 3" for a total of 9", leaving 3" left to fall.  After some more time, it falls 1.5", having now descended 10.5" from where it started.  Then it has only 0.75" left, and so on.  At this rate, the distance fallen continues to be cut in half - but how, then, does it ever reach zero if there is always distance left to be cut in hafl?  In other words, how does the cent ever actually land on the ground?

Our definitions are as unsound as the dollar which is in part so unsound because it includes zinc pennies.  

[cladking]

On 9/2/2024 at 4:56 PM, Henri Charriere said:

[ "Two-thirds of the [cents] produced in the 30 year' period, 1969 to 1999 have disappeared (dropped out of circulation)"]  What say you @cladking ?

I'd expect it to actually be higher.  Zinc pennies virtually evaporate in circulation which is why despite many people removing copper for their metallic value and the still astronomical mintages the ratio of copper to zinc remains stubbornly high. It's still over 10% because zincolns evaporate even faster than the general public can hoard copper!!  

With the attrition on zincolns we have not only lost the billions of dollars and man hours used to produce, count, and handle these coins since 1982 but we've also lost most of the coins themselves.  Even coins that have been set aside in BU rolls since 1982 are quite often rusting away making some dates quite elusive in good condition.  

[cladking]

On 9/2/2024 at 4:56 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Horrible feedback!  Absolutely atrocious! The New York Times is nothing but a murder of crows writing in from all over the world.

I wouldda read it except this murder deposits cookies in my computers like droppings.  One of my computers doesn't seem to wanna run at all with a "taboola" virus.  Then it doesn't download anything but a subscription offer and a five minute job deleting cookies.  

Back when I could read the NYT they just ticked me off anyway.

 

I don't need to read the article to know they are just trying to maintain the status quo because this is what the quisling media does.  Look at the picture accompanying the article and compared to a handful of pennies from circulation.  The picture shows lots of nice choice Unc and beautiful XF coins.  Your handful of pennies has almost nothing except stained, dirty, ugly and tarnished coins that were poorly made and then abused in circulation and parking lots.  

Pennies are a travesty that are hung around the neck of the economy like an albatross to remind us of what we have destroyed through government.  They even represent the reason it has been destroyed; to profit the few and enrich Washington DC.  

 

[cladking]

On 9/7/2024 at 9:18 AM, cladking said:

Look at the picture accompanying the article and compared to a handful of pennies from circulation.  The picture shows lots of nice choice Unc and beautiful XF coins.  Your handful of pennies has almost nothing except stained, dirty, ugly and tarnished coins that were poorly made and then abused in circulation and parking lots.  

Another difference is the handful of pennies will be almost all coins made in the last couple years because that's about how long these coins survive before they get tossed in the garbage as the worthless tokens they are.  Even these new coins will usually come from the mint with staining.  The percentage of bad ones varies from year to year but it sometimes easily exceeds 90%.  

Coins are often made with problems in the copper sheathing that can allow it to dissolve in the stomach and potentially kill any mammal more than 18 pounds.  The first few years of production typically had coins with such issues but this has been mostly rectified and the early ones are gone now for the main part.  If you handle real coins unlike those in this picture you'll have zinc oxide and who knows what else on your hands.  Pennies make an excellent vector for covid and other diseases where other denominations do not.