1877 Indian Head Cent - Would a TPG Even Assign a Grade To This One? 1 1

[ButchMcQueen]

Hi,

I came across this one in an inherited collection. According to the Red Book, even at the lowest grade it is worth a bit. However, this one is in such bad shape I wonder if it would receive a grade at all. On the one hand, the date is still legible, but on the other hand it is about as ugly as ugly can be!  Thanks in advance for any replies.

Butch

[Coinbuf]

I think between the obv scratch and the corrosion damage this would receive a details grade.  The TPG's do give key dates some leniency at times but this one looks too far gone.

[Sandon]

    This apparently genuine 1877 Indian cent has About Good obverse details and Good reverse details, but the deep obverse scratch and substantial reverse corrosion would almost certainly preclude a numerical grading service grade. It's a nice "filler" for an album collection.  

    Years ago, collectors saved pieces of this date in any condition, while Indian cents of most other dates that looked like this would still be spent, explaining why so many 1877s are found in very low grades.

[ButchMcQueen]

Coinbuf, thanks for the perspective and the mention of a details grade, something I was unaware even existed, so I'm now reading up on that.

Sandon, You pretty much have described the backstory of this coin! It came out of one of those old blue Whitman Publishing (Copyright 1940) coin collection folding books and was surrounded by much nicer looking coins from the years before and after 1877.

thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Butch 

[Sandon]

   See the following for NGC's explanation of and policies regarding "Details" grading: NGC Details Grading | NGC (ngccoin.com). Speaking for myself, I wouldn't submit this coin.

[powermad5000]

As long as the coin is genuine, and has a legible date, it would most likely be encapsulated, even with severe impairments. This surely would be a details coin for the large obverse scratch but I think it would additionally be tagged for corrosion.

As this is a popular collector coin and many fakes have been produced over the years, I think encapsulation would be for authentication purposes and would help to eliminate that variable when it comes to selling. A collector would be more comfortable buying one of these slabbed than spending a lot on a possible fake. As of this comment, a look in the NGC price guide shows one of these at Pr/AG at $475. That might be a reasonable price for an unimpaired specimen, but this coin with its impairments would not get that much premium in the marketplace and may only get about $200 or less.

If I had this coin, I might submit it just to have the guarantee of authenticity on display with the slab to remove that from the equation when it comes time to sell.

[ButchMcQueen]

Powermad, This is my thinking as well. I've got a few coins I'm considering submitting for grading and if I decide to do that I might jut add this one to the mix.  Thanks for sharing your insights on this one!

Butch

[Mike Meenderink]

This coin is in need of conservation. The green, black verdigris and other contaminants must be removed prior to grading. This coin would not be encapsulated with the verdigris on it. Once the Malachite (green stuff) and Cupric Sulfide (black stuff) is removed by chemical conservation the corrosion may have (likely) damaged the surface. Therefore, to be encapsulated it would need to be conserved and then at the TPGs discretion graded Poor or About Good Details corroded scratched. Being this is a key date coin I would take steps to professionally conserve this coin. I may not have it graded as the costs are high and the coin has a limited condition value beyond its scarcity value.

[ButchMcQueen]

Mike, I hadn't even considered that this would be a candidate for conservation, but doing so sounds like it would make sense. Thanks for suggesting this!

Butch

[powermad5000]

On 7/1/2024 at 3:57 PM, Mike Meenderink said:

This coin is in need of conservation. The green, black verdigris and other contaminants must be removed prior to grading. This coin would not be encapsulated with the verdigris on it. Once the Malachite (green stuff) and Cupric Sulfide (black stuff) is removed by chemical conservation the corrosion may have (likely) damaged the surface. Therefore, to be encapsulated it would need to be conserved and then at the TPGs discretion graded Poor or About Good Details corroded scratched. Being this is a key date coin I would take steps to professionally conserve this coin.

If the OP submits this coin and the graders feel it needs conservation, NGC will send the usual email that a coin part of submission XXXXXXX needs conservation for the following reasons : blah blah blah.

I have had many submissions where a coin I submitted normally were deemed to need conservation, some for PVC, others not exactly sure why as the email wasn't too clear as to why.

On 7/1/2024 at 5:16 PM, ButchMcQueen said:

I hadn't even considered that this would be a candidate for conservation,

Any coin can be sent to NCS for conservation. They will review it and if they deem it won't be of any help they will only charge $5 for having taken a look at it. I have sent many MS coins for conservation just to get the coin to the best possible appearance before being slabbed. I've also sent some not so nice coins to see if it could help. NCS charges a fee however so I try to choose coins that don't need conservation, but I am not afraid to purchase ones that do need it.