New To Grading, But Not Collecting... 1 1

[Curry Consulting Group]

A few weeks back I received my 1st batch of coins back from NGC.  I was "OK" with most of the grades.  However, I received 3 coins back that I can't understand the grading on.  They all have "UNC Details" on them.  I phoned and spoke to them about these grades, but, there is no logic to them. One example: How can a coin be uncirculated & at the same time be described as "Damaged" ?  If it did not go into circulation, the "Damage" had to take place at the Mint. NGC would not confirm or reject what I feel is a logical observation.

 

Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated

[Mike Meenderink]

Hello and welcome to the forum. As a numismatist and collector for over 35 years I will tell you that the grades received on your coins are accurate and common. An Uncirculated coin can be damaged in several different ways. The coin could be scratched, scuffed, rim dinged, gouged, color altered, altered surfaces, cleaned, whizzed, hair lined, bent, among many other conditions. If the coin was graded UNC Details Damaged, then the coin had un determinate damage that the graders could not specify. The term "Damaged" is an overarching descriptive term TPGs use when describing unknown or not previously seen damage to a coin. Any damage to a coin can be post mint damage but... some damage does and can occur in the mint. Also, a mint state coin does not automatically mean a perfect coin. Coins are minted in different strike qualities and have different quality levels even when struck at the same mint. Coins also gain marks and scuffs in the mint by just being collated in large bins/bags together with hundreds of thousands of other coins. These small differences in condition and strike quality are what make the higher graded MS 66-70 coins worth the money. If you would like to post a clear cropped photo of each coin obv/rev I would be happy to look at your coins and give you an explanation and possibly determine the damage seen by NGC. Cheers!

Edited June 6 by Mike Meenderink

[Greenstang]

Damage is anything that happens to a coin after it has been ejected from the striking chamber.  
There are numerous things that can happen while being handled and packed at the mint that
would be considered damage. If it happens during the striking of the coin, then it would be an error.

[Coinbuf]

Once coins are minted they are sent in large ballistic 5000lb bags to the firms that distribute those coins.   Lots of damage can happen along the way, quite often people ask about circular marks on uncirculated coins thinking they are errors.   Those marks come from the counting/sorting/wrapping machines that are used to convert those 5000lb bags of coins into individual rolls.    Those same machines also impart what are called wheel marks, these are small patches of hairlines (often very difficult to locate or see if you have not see them) that are caused by the rubber wheels of the machines when they rub or skid across a coin.

And I cannot even begin to count the number of uncirculated coins I have seen over the years with staple scratches that happened because of carless handling by both collectors and dealers.

These are just a few of ways that coins which would otherwise be straight graded unc's receive damage and are given details grades by the TPG's.   It would be helpful to see the coins in question.

[Henri Charriere]

To the O[riginal] P[oster]:

It is always refreshing to hear from people who are fairly new to the hobby.  The truth is most of those who are still around, from forty years ago and more (pre-TPGSs) were on our own.  Oddities and curiosities were whatever the coin shop keepers behind the counter said they were. When silver was withdrawn from circulation, all of the sudden, the emphasis was on acquiring halves, quarters and dimes. No questions asked. If your "man in the street," generally uninformed about numismatic value possibilities walked in, so much better for the dealers. There was no telling what jewel they were walking in with unbeknownst to them.

Today, there is a question about the quality of advice being dispensed. Grading was certainly simpler: Fair, Good, Very Good, Fine... all the way up to Unciculated. Proofs, were proofs. Then Sheldon introduced a scale to theoretically address the problem of grading coins. Gradually, almost imperceptibly, investors saw untapped opportunities and older hobbyists were shunted aside, politely.  I am sorry to say I do not have any useful advice to give you except to point you the leading columns on the Forum regarding "Basic Resources" and "What You Need To Know."

There is a place in this hobby for everyone dictated only by your age, budget and specific area of interest.  In the beginning, most of us gravitated to a specific coin type that struck their fancy. Many collected different coin types simultaneously.  Others devoted their attention to improving the quality of the coins they already had.  They soon learned, with the help of a "Red Book" that certain "key dates" were more difficult to find than others. The conscientious collector saved up enough money to buy them.

None of what I've written has answered your general questions.  The truth is to truly understand the ins-and-outs of this hobby, you must have time to devote to it. I read what others have written and if has no specific application to the coins and series I collect, I move on: if it doesn't apply, I let if fly.  I no longer collect Mint or Proof sets, so-called "modern" coins and older U.S. coins.  I feel it is the up-and-coming younger generations that will determine the ultimate trajectory of this hobby. There are some truly wonderful members in this hobby who have amassed stunning collections over time. I cannot think of a single instance I logged in and logged out later without learning something I never knew before. I encourage you to study the replies and comments made and I virtually guarantee you will inadvertently come across a member, or members, whose views resonate and coincide with yours. Happy Hunting!  🐓 

Edited Monday at 11:46 PM by Henri Charriere
Die polishing; correct major attribution.

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Sometimes it just takes a little thinking of the possibilities of how something can happen. In this case, you state you have uncirculated coins with grades of UNC Details - Damaged.

So, think of one possibility for a second. Say someone had a really great MS coin that they were looking at, and went to place it in a cardboard flip but inadvertently mishandled the coin and dropped it. The coin then rolled across the floor and contacted a metal leg of a chair while rolling and that imparted a deep scratch across the obverse as well as the rim having a ding from when it hit the floor.

Another case that many people screw up on is when they go to submit their coins to a TPG for grading and the coins reside in cardboard flips. Well, people tend to just rip the flips open and many times a coin will slide across an exposed staple imparting a nasty scratch.

I have also seen several times at major coin shows a silver coin hitting the concrete floor and rolling across it into another aisle because the person who was viewing the coin had fumble fingers and dropped it while trying to flip it over to look at the other side. When you hear that clink off the concrete floor, you know that coin is now officially damaged. I do not know what the dealers position is when that happens. I would want to be of the persuasion if you dropped it, you bought it.

The point I am making with all this dialogue is that just because a coin is uncirculated does not mean it is automatically free from problems.

Maybe you could post pics of the obverse and reverse here of just one of the coins you have that prompted you to open this thread so we can have a look and maybe explain what happened to that one.

[l.cutler]

One other point, just because a coin gets an uncirculated designation does not mean it never entered circulation.  It just means it shows no wear.

[VKurtB]

On 6/7/2024 at 3:47 AM, l.cutler said:

One other point, just because a coin gets an uncirculated designation does not mean it never entered circulation.  It just means it shows no wear.

Yes, this. A coin can be BADLY HORRIBLY DAMAGED, yet still be UNC or MS or BU. But even a slight amount of barely perceptible WEAR will take it down to AU. Uncirculated is not a description of a coin’s history. A so-called Uncirculated coin may have passed through THOUSANDS of hands.