Members' assistance requested. 0

[RWB]

As some members night remember, I am working on a successor book to From Mine to Mint -- this volume is called Mine to Mint 2. Like its predecessor, it concentrates on US Mint equipment, processes, facilities and all the other things that allowed our coins to be manufactured and distributed. For MTM2, I requested topic ideas from coin collectors of all types and specialties, with an emphasis on newer collectors and what they wanted to know more about.

Presented below is a draft chapter order organized by topical sections. Almost every chapter is in response to collector questions, including those of several members on this forum. Although it is not possible to post significant details, the subjects should be clear from chapter titles. Most are 19th century, although several go back to the Mint's first decade operation in the 1790s.

I would appreciate any helpful comments, missing subjects, suggestions, etc. that members might have.

Thanks! RWB

 

Edited June 5 by RWB

[Mike Meenderink]

I've always wondered exactly which of the Comstock Lode mines gold were used in the Carson City Mint? Which smelters/ refiners provided that gold? Was there a single largest contributor?

Edited June 5 by Mike Meenderink

[Mike Meenderink]

Also, I love the Mint Cabinet stories. The topic of "The Mint Cabinet" Would add wonder and mystique to the story by talking about the rare coins "put away" by the various Mint's and Mint Directors over time. Leading to some of the rarest coins ever seen. Also answer the question of does this still continue today?

Edited June 5 by Mike Meenderink

[Zebo]

It looks like some very interesting topics. As far as what May be missing, I will give it some thought. Based upon what you have outlined thus far - it’s a buy in my eyes.

[RWB]

Zebo - Appreciate the cogitation !

Mike - Most of the "Comstock" silver and gold went to San Francisco Mint. I'll take a look and see if there's a story there.

Also, I have several of the original inventories and accession documents for the Mint Cabinet. But there is very little of the story behind some of the coins. (The US Mint provides current coins, etc to Smithsonian annually.) I'll take a look - there are a few interesting tales, but they don't really follow the overriding concept of MTM2.)

[GoldFinger1969]

Since this book is going to be read by collectors, at some point you should include HOW the coins got from the press to the collector.....was there a way for folks on the "assembly line" to intercept the coins for Special Delivery to VIPs and collectors ? 

Collectors and VIPs would want higher-grade, pristine coins once collecting got popular, right ?

Edited June 6 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

Good point. I will add that bit.

[FlyingAl]

I'm not really sure if collectors would care about the British view of the Mint, but I do think they'd care about the functions of the assay offices and refining gold and silver into bars that were returned to the customer, especially since those bars are now quite collectible. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/5/2024 at 8:12 PM, FlyingAl said:

I'm not really sure if collectors would care about the British view of the Mint, but I do think they'd care about the functions of the assay offices and refining gold and silver into bars that were returned to the customer, especially since those bars are now quite collectible. 

I would agree....also, how did different coins get to where they were supposed to be used and/or into collectors hands ?  Once it got struck....conveyor belt.....bag or basket...THEN WHAT ? 

This might be basic to anybody who went on a tour of the Mint but for the rest of us, it's somewhat foreign.

DEs were used for foreign trade (along with bullion).....MSDs were basically being socked away....but the smaller denomination stuff being struck, how did THAT get into the public's hands along with the other bigger coins ?  Regular national and state banks ?

[RWB]

On 6/5/2024 at 8:12 PM, FlyingAl said:

I do think they'd care about the functions of the assay offices and refining gold and silver into bars that were returned to the customer,

Most of this was covered in FMTM -- I don't want to duplicate material. MTM2 covers different materials and usually from a different era. For example, 18th century US Mint die making is described from the blacksmith's work with iron and steel, including making carbon steel from available materials.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/5/2024 at 9:58 PM, RWB said:

Most of this was covered in FMTM -- I don't want to duplicate material. MTM2 covers different materials and usually from a different era. For example, 18th century US Mint die making is described from the blacksmith's work with iron and steel, including making carbon steel from available materials.

Early attempts at stopping counterfeiting -- maybe before the Secret Service ? -- might be interesting.  Worth a few pages.

[FlyingAl]

On 6/5/2024 at 7:58 PM, RWB said:

Most of this was covered in FMTM -- I don't want to duplicate material. MTM2 covers different materials and usually from a different era. For example, 18th century US Mint die making is described from the blacksmith's work with iron and steel, including making carbon steel from available materials.

Ok. What about pattern production?

[RWB]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:36 AM, FlyingAl said:

Ok. What about pattern production?

The physical manufacture of a pattern piece was identical to ordinary proof coins. Patterns, restrikes and related pieces is an extensive subject. I've been researching this for several years and still do not have a good grasp of the overall subject. Much of the "received wisdom" from experts is bologna decorated with cute ribbons.

Edited June 6 by RWB

[RWB]

On 6/5/2024 at 11:20 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Early attempts at stopping counterfeiting -- maybe before the Secret Service ? -- might be interesting.  Worth a few pages.

This is a fairly broad subject the core of which I covered in the book Fads, Fakes and Foibles. This has detailed chapters on Barclay's mint experiments, Hubbell's Goloid nonsense. The Mint had no internal investigative staff. Everything was delegated to Treasury investigators and I felt that was beyond the scope of MTM2 - although possibly of individual interest.

Edited June 6 by RWB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:56 PM, RWB said:

The physical manufacture of a pattern piece was identical to ordinary proof coins. Patterns, restrikes and related pieces is an extensive subject. I've been researching this for several years and still do not have a good grasp of the overall subject.

Makes sense...maybe just focus on some of the more famous/valuable patterns.......DEs, MSDs, etc ?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:56 PM, RWB said:

The physical manufacture of a pattern piece was identical to ordinary proof coins. Patterns, restrikes and related pieces is an extensive subject. I've been researching this for several years and still do not have a good grasp of the overall subject.

Makes sense...maybe just focus on some of the more famous/valuable patterns.......DEs, MSDs, etc ?

[GoldFinger1969]

Is this going to be a completely NEW book or just FMTM with lots of revised stuff and new chapters ?

[RWB]

On 6/6/2024 at 1:08 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Makes sense...maybe just focus on some of the more famous/valuable patterns.......DEs, MSDs, etc ?

That will be part of the pattern & restrike book.

[RWB]

On 6/6/2024 at 1:09 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Is this going to be a completely NEW book or just FMTM with lots of revised stuff and new chapters ?

Mine to Mint 2 has a similar focus as FMTM, but it is completely new. That is, it is not an "updated, revised, enlarged" edition. There is some subject overlap but not repetition. For example the MTM2 chapter on dies is entirely 18th century technology as applied at the little mint in Philadelphia. Here's a short excerpt from the Engraving Chapter:

"The early U.S. Mint needed dies to strike coins, and that required an alloy of iron and carbon, called steel, from which to make dies. Not just any kind of steel would do. It had to be high carbon steel – iron with approximately one percent carbon – and a uniform composition if it was to be both hard and tough. It also had to respond well to annealing and hardening cycles, and have predictable behavior. Carbon made steel hard and uniformity greatly reduced cracking and splitting during heat treatment.

"In the 1790s there were only three general types of carbon steel available, although none were what are now considered a uniform or standard alloy."

It then explains how the mint blacksmiths made die steel with the tools and materials available to them, and so forth.

[RWB]

On 6/6/2024 at 1:09 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Makes sense...maybe just focus on some of the more famous/valuable patterns.......DEs, MSDs, etc ?

MTM2 is about technology, machinery, manufacturing, business processes, facilities, etc. rather than the coins. The products of all this - the coins - are important but they are the results, not the "how" of US minting. There are plenty of coin picture books; almost none about how they were made.

[RWB]

On 6/5/2024 at 7:54 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Since this book is going to be read by collectors, at some point you should include HOW the coins got from the press to the collector.....was there a way for folks on the "assembly line" to intercept the coins for Special Delivery to VIPs and collectors ? 

Collectors and VIPs would want higher-grade, pristine coins once collecting got popular, right ?

After checking notes and my database, I've begun writing a short chapter on how collectors acquired coins. This varied with the era and economic resources of people. The subject is not covered elsewhere except by peripheral reference.

Thank you!

[powermad5000]

Was there anything special about the individual Mint branches, specifically Dahlonega, Charlotte and West Point histories? Did those mints have any equipment that the other Mint branches didn't have or use different procedures than others? Did the equipment get moved to other branches? Also, being the popularity of the Carson City Mint branch, the same questions.

[RWB]

On 6/6/2024 at 11:26 PM, powermad5000 said:

Was there anything special about the individual Mint branches, specifically Dahlonega, Charlotte and West Point histories? Did those mints have any equipment that the other Mint branches didn't have or use different procedures than others? Did the equipment get moved to other branches? Also, being the popularity of the Carson City Mint branch, the same questions.

Most of this was covered in FMTM along with the early use of the West Point Bullion Depository.

Charlotte and Dahlonega equipment was rendered useless by confederate vandals. They were expensive political plums during the 1850s and should have been closed back then. Carson Mint equipment was sent to New Orleans and San Francisco, but it was mostly old and worn out. There are a couple of Carson inventories in the archives. Anyone who wants a copy, please let me know, but don't expect any great revelations.

[RWB]

Here's a short excerpt from the new chapter about how collectors acquired coins (as suggested above). This is an opportunity afforded only to those who were well known to mint officers...one could not simply wander in off the street and ask to rummage through the coins on hand.

Until about 1860 and the directorate of James Pollock, the Philadelphia Mint occasionally made special accommodation for coin collectors. The instance above of Matthew Stickney was neither unique nor especially unusual and replacement  of large coppers with small flying eagle cents generated special requests such as this one from Nathan T. Perkins of Boston.

 

Boston, July 23, 1858

   Since the introduction of the new cent into our national currency, the old copper cent is, I understand, forwarded to the Mint in large quantities where it is melted up. Among these must necessarily be some rare coins, such as the Washington cents &c. These to the Antiquarian are valuable. Could I, by coming to Philadelphia, be allowed to look over some of these, for the purpose of enlarging my collection. You will oblige greatly by giving an early answer.[1]

A prompt, positive answer was sent just three days later.

July 26, 1858

   In reply to your letter of the 23rd inst. I have to state that I will gladly give you an opportunity of examining such of the old cents as are not melted for the purpose of enabling you to make selections for your cabinet.[2]

[1] RG104 E-1 Box 51. Letter dated June 23, 1858 to Snowden from Perkins. [2] RG104 E-1 Box 51. Letter dated June 26, 1858 to Perkins from Snowden.

Edited June 8 by RWB

[Fenntucky Mike]

How about a chapter on the production of foreign coinage by U.S. mints. The bidding process, if there was one, design approval, getting the ok from the government/s U.S. and foreign, how it was worked into and around normal production of U.S. coinage and/or affected it, etc...

[RWB]

On 6/8/2024 at 4:08 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

How about a chapter on the production of foreign coinage by U.S. mints. The bidding process, if there was one, design approval, getting the ok from the government/s U.S. and foreign, how it was worked into and around normal production of U.S. coinage and/or affected it, etc...

I made a rough outline of this but it did not seem to hold together. Partly, this was because the State Dept was almost always involved, and the other end was always foreign economic and political situations that would not be understandable to Americans. I've provided archival info to authors in several countries. Their articles for domestic use are excellent, but they don't really "speak" to American readers.

Interesting future idea, though.

A lot of the ideas in the book draft, however, are direct from forum members.

[RWB]

On 6/5/2024 at 7:54 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Since this book is going to be read by collectors, at some point you should include HOW the coins got from the press to the collector.....was there a way for folks on the "assembly line" to intercept the coins for Special Delivery to VIPs and collectors ? 

Collectors and VIPs would want higher-grade, pristine coins once collecting got popular, right ?

Would you like to take a look at a draft of the short chapter relating to your suggestion? Does it answer your question?