Need more information for the tokens/coins 1 1

[Praneet sadana]

Thanks you for helping me in the last post. Today, I purchased a lot of graded coins/Tokens in an auction. Images are attached. Any information for value and facts about these coins/tokens will be highly appreciated. Are these good for long term hold?

 

[Sandon]

   These pieces are known as "Hard Times Tokens". They are privately made pieces dating from 1832 to 1844, most of them copper and of the same size as the government-issued large cents of the era.  Some of them carry satirical political themes concerning the persona and policies of Presidents Andrew Jackson (1829-37) and Martin Van Buren (1837-41), while others advertise merchants and their goods.  There are over 500 different varieties. An overview of these pieces and a listing of 15 or so of the best-known (political) varieties appear in the "Other Issues" section of the standard "Red Book", pp. 424-26 of the 2023 edition. 

   The four pieces in the NGC holders in the lot you purchased are merchant varieties. The piece in the PCGS holder is one of several well-known political varieties quoting from Van Buren's inaugural address, "I follow in the footsteps of my illustrious predecessor" (Jackson, depicted as a jack-ss) and mocking as a failed "executive experiment" the designation of local banks as "sub-treasuries" for the deposit of federal funds after Jackson's refusal to allow the renewal of the charter of the Bank of the United States. Values for these tokens vary with variety and condition, and I do not have a comprehensive guide to them. Hopefully, another forum member will have some idea of the values of these particular varieties and grades.

   Hard Times tokens, though not as popular as regular issue U.S. coins, have had a following among some collectors since the late nineteenth century. It isn't possible to predict future values, but they are certainly of historical interest. I have found that if you make wise purchases of pieces about which you are knowledgeable and find interesting, appreciation tends to follow.

[powermad5000]

If you like these tokens, by all means keep them. They are in nice condition! 

I would however address the undated NY token as the holder is severely cracked and damaged. I would resubmit that one to NGC for a reholder.

Excellent lot! I hope you obtained them for a good price to boot!

[ldhair]

Nice group.

[Praneet sadana]

Thanks for the in-depth insight. Before the auction, I wasn't able to find any information about them on PCGS or NGC. The only available details were the grade, population, and price. I really liked the tokens, so I guess I may have overpaid for them. The lower grades mentioned were previously sold for $500 USD or more, and I'm unsure of what these will fetch in the future. I was amazed to see such high grades for tokens of that age.

[Praneet sadana]

On 5/30/2024 at 8:28 PM, Sandon said:

   These pieces are known as "Hard Times Tokens". They are privately made pieces dating from 1832 to 1844, most of them copper and of the same size as the government-issued large cents of the era.  Some of them carry satirical political themes concerning the persona and policies of Presidents Andrew Jackson (1829-37) and Martin Van Buren (1837-41), while others advertise merchants and their goods.  There are over 500 different varieties. An overview of these pieces and a listing of 15 or so of the best-known (political) varieties appear in the "Other Issues" section of the standard "Red Book", pp. 424-26 of the 2023 edition. 

   The four pieces in the NGC holders in the lot you purchased are merchant varieties. The piece in the PCGS holder is one of several well-known political varieties quoting from Van Buren's inaugural address, "I follow in the footsteps of my illustrious predecessor" (Jackson, depicted as a jack-ss) and mocking as a failed "executive experiment" the designation of local banks as "sub-treasuries" for the deposit of federal funds after Jackson's refusal to allow the renewal of the charter of the Bank of the United States. Values for these tokens vary with variety and condition, and I do not have a comprehensive guide to them. Hopefully, another forum member will have some idea of the values of these particular varieties and grades.

   Hard Times tokens, though not as popular as regular issue U.S. coins, have had a following among some collectors since the late nineteenth century. It isn't possible to predict future values, but they are certainly of historical interest. I have found that if you make wise purchases of pieces about which you are knowledgeable and find interesting, appreciation tends to follow.

Thanks for the in-depth insight. Before the auction, I wasn't able to find any information about them on PCGS or NGC. The only available details were the grade, population, and price. I really liked the tokens, so I guess I may have overpaid for them. The lower grades mentioned were previously sold for $500 USD or more, and I'm unsure of what these will fetch in the future. I was amazed to see such high grades for tokens of that age.

[Mike Meenderink]

Hello and welcome to the forum. The Hard Times MS tokens you have posted are among some of the finest and highest graded examples of their types. These are rare tokens not often seen for sale on the market. Let me tell you a little bit more about each one's value and rarity. 

1. 1840 Cleveland, OH HT-381 A. Loomis MS 62 BN. Pop 2/ 0 Higher. Top Pop. Value est. $2,000.00-2,400.00      (recent sale 1/20/13 HA NGC AU 50 Sold $555.00) (much lower grade)

2. 1835-38 NY, NY HT-308 Robert B. Ruggles MS 65 BN. Pop 2/ 0 Higher. Top pop. Value est. $1,500.00      (recent sale 7/12/13 HA NGC MS 63 BN Sold $646.00) (lower grade)

3. Undated NY, NY HT-279 Thin Planchet Dr. J.G. Hewitt RS MS 67 RB. Pop 1/0 Higher. Top Pop. Value est. $1,400-1,700.00   (recent sale 8/3/21 GC NGC MS 67 BN Sold $576.00) (lower grade)

4.1837 NY, NY HT-219 Henry Anderson MS 64 BN. Pop 6/1 Higher. 2nd Finest. Value est. $225.00   (recent sale 9/15/06 HA NGC MS 62 BN Sold $92.00) (lower grade)

5. 1837 HT-31 Copper Illustrious Predecessor AU 50. Pop 1/10 Higher.  Value est. $85.00   (recent sale 9/15/06 HA PCGS AU 50 Sold $49.00) (equal grade, past sale)

You now hold 3 of the finest known tokens of these types. One that is second finest and one that is fairly common but still unique in its grade. Congratulations on a nice purchase. If you add up the numbers above hopefully you came out on top! Cheers!  

Edited May 31 by Mike Meenderink

[Praneet sadana]

On 5/31/2024 at 12:37 AM, Mike Meenderink said:

Hello and welcome to the forum. The Hard Times MS tokens you have posted are among some of the finest and highest graded examples of their types. These are rare tokens not often seen for sale on the market. Let me tell you a little bit more about each one's value and rarity. 

1. 1840 Cleveland, OH HT-381 A. Loomis MS 62 BN. Pop 2/ 0 Higher. Top Pop. Value est. $2,000.00-2,400.00      (recent sale 1/20/13 HA NGC AU 50 Sold $555.00) (much lower grade)

2. 1835-38 NY, NY HT-308 Robert B. Ruggles MS 65 BN. Pop 2/ 0 Higher. Top pop. Value est. $1,500.00      (recent sale 7/12/13 HA NGC MS 63 BN Sold $646.00) (lower grade)

3. Undated NY, NY HT-279 Thin Planchet Dr. J.G. Hewitt RS MS 67 RB. Pop 1/0 Higher. Top Pop. Value est. $1,400-1,700.00   (recent sale 8/3/21 GC NGC MS 67 BN Sold $576.00) (lower grade)

4.1837 NY, NY HT-219 Henry Anderson MS 64 BN. Pop 6/1 Higher. 2nd Finest. Value est. $225.00   (recent sale 9/15/06 HA NGC MS 62 BN Sold $92.00) (lower grade)

5. 1837 HT-31 Copper Illustrious Predecessor AU 50. Pop 1/10 Higher.  Value est. $85.00   (recent sale 9/15/06 HA PCGS AU 50 Sold $49.00) (equal grade, past sale)

You now hold 3 of the finest known tokens of these types. One that is second finest and one that is fairly common but still unique in its grade. Congratulations on a nice purchase. If you add up the numbers above hopefully you came out on top! Cheers!  

Thank you for the in-depth explanation and the current valuation for the coins. I guess I did pretty good and looking at the rarity, I will keep them for long in my collection. I really appreciate the help. 

 

[Henri Charriere]

🐓:  What do you think?

Q.A.:  I will have to defer to the gentlemen who've already responded and accept that these are exceptional pieces, but it seems to me, and I am only throwing this out there for what it's worth, the time to ask questions of such grave import, ideally, is before you bid and not after you've acquired the pieces. After all, what if the responses were to the contrary? Then what?  I believe you have lucked out!