Grade for 1837 Feuchtwanger Token, One Cent 1 1

[Praneet sadana]

What can be the grade of this 1837 Feuchtwanger Token, One Cent. 

[JKK]

That's a nice one, with what seem like planchet defects not related to PMD. Interesting color and toning, pretty flow lines, not sure it's even circulated as the flat spots on the high points might well be strike weakness. It might get MS-62 or so if the grading people think the way I'm thinking; if not, probably AU-55. Much nicer than mine, which is EF scratched and quite clearly circulated.

[Praneet sadana]

Thanks, what you think the value should be ungraded like this? 

[RWB]

EF. Readily available with defects and damage as shown. Might get an offer of $70, but no more since I doubt it will "grade" due to edge damage. But --- might be wrong on that. I've seen worse in TPG slabs.

Edited May 14 by RWB

[JKK]

On 5/14/2024 at 1:51 PM, Praneet sadana said:

Thanks, what you think the value should be ungraded like this? 

Retail could be anywhere between about $150 and maybe $250, just guessing. Dealer probably pays half of one of those figures or one in between. A lot depends on whether the flattening is strike weakness or wear.

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Looks very nice.  I am not sure if it would straight grade due to the rim dings.  If it did, I would grade it AU55-58.  Cool piece!

[Henri Charriere]

Truth be told, I have always loved this coin from the time I was an amoeba. The one important consideration we must consider is this is a private product and not a product of the U.S. mint!

Granted, there are quite evident planchet defects but why is it we bend over backwards to accommodate shillings and cobs with shark bites and sizeable parts of metal missing but jump all over a fine creation banged out in a lower Manhattan shop? (In case Sandon is lurking about, I would cite Wikipedia as one source.)

Advertised on an auction at a ridiculously high grade a few years back, the example I saw appeared to have had a wooden dowel placed in the center of the coin's obverse which was apparently rubbed clock- and counter-clockwise leaving an unsightly concentric circular marks which was impossible to over look -- and yet described in glowing terms by the "experts" well-versed in using flowery prose as a gift befitting royalty.

I stand firm in insisting we extend to the OP the same courtesy old Colonial coinage is routinely extended in recognition of the fact they were all produced by primitive means. As far as I am concerned, if that atrocity I once saw is grouped with similarly defaced coins (like counter-punched Trade Dollars and coins a coterie of coinologists have summarily declared to be forgiven for their defects as being "common to the series") I am going to declare this coin to be likewise immune from such criticism.  Grade?  Malheureusement, my emotions supersede my deficit in adjudging a coin I lack the necessary experience to grade as objectively as I should.  The coin, as noted upthread by JKK, appears to straddle the AU/MS line.

(There are members on this or perhaps another Forum who have exhibited fine examples of their Feuchtwangers elsewhere.  I believe now would be an appropriate time to post their coins along with any constructive criticism.)

(Posted at the discretion of NGC Moderation, with my unqualified assent.)

 

[powermad5000]

Hello and welcome!
 

Your token appears to be of the 6-G variety of the 14 total known varieties. It is of Rarity 2. Obverse 6 has 7 feathers in which 4 touch the ground (the third just barely) with a dash to the upper left of the serif of the 1 in the date numerals. The reverse is a G as it has 13 berries total and the right star is very close to the N in COMPOSITION. These are listed as HT-268 (formerly called Low-120). The source for these 14 varieties which seems to be widely recognized by collectors was established by James Theodore Koutsoures.

These tokens were struck in high relief much like the 1921 Peace Dollars which caused the bulk of the center of the feathers on the eagles body to not have much detail and appear to be worn but are not due to the high relief of the strike. There are very few specimens having a lot of detail in the center of the eagle on the obverse due to the relief.

Your token appears to be uncirculated but I think would receive a details grade for environmental damage seeing as there seems to be some mild corrosion spots on the obverse and a larger area of light discoloration on the reverse. I am not sure if the graders would let the piece from the rim missing slide as these were not actually Mint produced tokens and I am not sure of the overall quality of the planchets used to make these. Also, I am not sure if the other depression on the obverse is a planchet issue or if that is from a heavy hit.

It is of better details than most worn specimens which are typically found as these all basically circulated at the time and it is harder to find specimens with uncirculated details. Despite its issues as presented, I think it is still a very good specimen and in my opinion would get somewhere between $250-$350 in its current condition at auction level as a raw token.

Hope this helps.

[Henri Charriere]

I do not know how any of this can be of help to the OP.  He requested a grade; he got a slew of those from all over the place.  There is no unanimity over whether this coin has even been in circulation.  Without a verdict on grade, there can be no intelligible discourse on value.  An "offer" of $70 to a possible valuation of up to $350 is meaningless.

I am afraid you will have to review the replies and come to your own conclusion as to whether certification is justified.  Bear in mind, this is a home-made product and deserves recognition as such.  If it were mine, I would have it certified for better or worse.  And if I were interested in selling it, I would take the consignment route and let the chips fall where they may.

[powermad5000]

On 5/27/2024 at 8:24 PM, Henri Charriere said:

I do not know how any of this can be of help to the OP.  He requested a grade; he got a slew of those from all over the place.  There is no unanimity over whether this coin has even been in circulation.  Without a verdict on grade, there can be no intelligible discourse on value.

The OP got a slice of what he requested from the members of the forum. And as such, what makes this one different from any other raw coin that has been posted here? Most times, there is no unanimous decision on the grade of raw coins posted here, and there are even occasional disagreements among members on the grade listed on the label inside of a slabbed coin, so I am not sure where you are going with this. There is bound to be a difference of opinion of grade on any raw coin regardless of type, date, and condition and that comes from each objective opine as viewed by many different people with many different levels of expertise and different levels of knowledge of each type and series, and even understanding of minting processes. In all, this sounds "normal" to me to have a range of opinions with a corresponding range of possible values to go with it.

To say the OP received no help is simply not true regardless if the opinions given are wide ranging.

[Praneet sadana]

On 5/27/2024 at 10:28 PM, powermad5000 said:

The OP got a slice of what he requested from the members of the forum. And as such, what makes this one different from any other raw coin that has been posted here? Most times, there is no unanimous decision on the grade of raw coins posted here, and there are even occasional disagreements among members on the grade listed on the label inside of a slabbed coin, so I am not sure where you are going with this. There is bound to be a difference of opinion of grade on any raw coin regardless of type, date, and condition and that comes from each objective opine as viewed by many different people with many different levels of expertise and different levels of knowledge of each type and series, and even understanding of minting processes. In all, this sounds "normal" to me to have a range of opinions with a corresponding range of possible values to go with it.

To say the OP received no help is simply not true regardless if the opinions given are wide ranging.

I would say, I learned more regarding the coin by reading all the comments and that's what make it more intersting for me. I agree everyone's opinion is different for grading and value but the information I got is way more valuable than those.

[Mike Meenderink]

Forum members if you cannot answer the coin specific questions posted by the OPs with the same educated, knowledgeable, descriptive manner as @powermad5000then you should not be commenting on the posts or giving an opinion. If you do not have the specific grading parameters knowledge of an individual series or type of coin or token, you could never accurately assess the coin. I have no problem with opinions but only those which are educated and well informed as to the topic on hand. Thank you and goodnight.