Why Someday Moderns Will be Hot. 0

[cladking]

On 5/27/2024 at 2:24 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

This thread requires some bigtime navigation, and it also clouded up some others. 

Nonetheless, for those who came in late, can you give maybe 10 "moderns" that you think will appreciate in the next 5 or 10 or 20 years by a HUGE amount ?

Just go like this:

• Coin #1
• Coin #2
• Coin #3
• Etc...etc...etc...all the way up to 10 coins or however many you think can go up a ton.

That way we have specific coins (and maybe years/mintmarks)...maybe condition rarity is needed for some...and we can then disucss and go back-and-forth on specific coins.

 

There are lots of variables and a great deal depends on what coins specifically are desired by future collectors.  A lot depends on how you define the terms as well.  I'm going to attempt an answer by defining the terms as coins with the greatest percentage increase in price that are not dependent on being pop tops and not proofs.  

1984 1c in solid Gem

1969 25c in nice Gem.  

1992 5c in solid Gem

1982-P 25c Gem

1968 DDO dime in vchBU

1976 type I Ike in solid gemmy condition

1966 5C SMS FS

1965 10c SMS FT

1965 dCAM cent

1980-D 50c solid Gem.

"vchBU" means a very well made coin with full luster and reasonably clean. (MS-63)

"gemmy" means a well made coin with minimal marking and no major strike or die deficiency. (MS-64)

"Gem" means a well made well centered coin made by good dies with very little marking.  (MS-65)

"solid Gem" allows no grading parameters to be weak or borderline. (Ms-65/66)

Services allow worn die strikes and poor strikes to get higher grades and future collectors may not want any coins without full detail/ full strikes.  They also won't want carbon spots and unattractive coins.  "Ugly" plagues almost all clads and especially the early years and the '82/'83 issues.  There are numerous other moderns that are really quite scarce in nice attractive condition or even just nice chBU.  There are quite a few very scarce and important varieties like '71-D/D dimes and '70-S sm dt in high grade.  There are hundreds of highly desirable modern US coins that will probably enjoy spectacular gains some day.   

Most of these I know for a fact are rare because my sample size is more than sufficient but others of these can not properly be sampled because all coins "bunch up"; ie- there could be someone with 100 rolls of really nice '84 cents through sheer coincidence.  Despite looking at hundreds of rolls and thousands of mint sets perhaps I was just unluck in finding this coin. Other coins simply won't exist because they weren't saved or didn't appear in mint sets.  For instance 98% of '80-D half dollars in mint sets are scraped.  The 2% that are not scraped are almost always poor strikes or have deficiencies.  People weren't going through rolls of half dollars in 1980 looking for Gems.   I got lucky and found a few in souvenir sets but most of these are gone now and fewer than 1% were Gem.  

 

 

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:31 AM, J P M said:

I do not think anyone can give you answer on that. Coins have to many variables. Older collectors pass on and their coins come into the market and change things again. Gold and silver are on the rise and some of my coins that were going up are now going down. Each collectable stands alone.

But my understanding is most of these coins are NOT pure silver or gold coins, right? 

Ergo, even if they do have a valuable metal (even silver -- I presume there are no "clad" gold coins, as 90% gold/10% copper is NOT considered "clad") they trade at a HUGE premium to the underlying metal content, right ?

So a rising (silver) metal price won't drag them up, anymore than a rising gold price moves up an MCMVII HR or UHR -- too big a premium.

Add in the demographic headwind -- tens of thousands of sellers each year, fewer buyers -- and I'm not sure how we make a case for these moderns and/or clad coins going up in price, unlike the case I have made for rising gold dragging up most gold coins including pre-1933 U.S. gold like Saints and Liberty Head DEs.

[J P M]

On 5/29/2024 at 1:48 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

But my understanding is most of these coins are NOT pure silver or gold coins, right? 

Sorry clad is not changed by gold and silver rise. I was venting on the wrong subject.  

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/28/2024 at 4:59 PM, cladking said:

There are lots of variables and a great deal depends on what coins specifically are desired by future collectors.  

1984 1c in solid Gem

1969 25c in nice Gem.  

1992 5c in solid Gem

1982-P 25c Gem

1968 DDO dime in vchBU

1976 type I Ike in solid gemmy condition

1966 5C SMS FS

1965 10c SMS FT

1965 dCAM cent

1980-D 50c solid Gem.

....  "Ugly" plagues almost all clads and especially the early years and the '82/'83 issues.....

WARNING! Danny Downer is in the house!

A.  Demand is everything. I couldn't care less about '80-D half dollars. I suspect your average man on the street doesn't either. When's the last time you heard someone even ask for one in any condition???   When's the last time you got a Kennedy in change?  Out of sight, out of mind.

B.  I couldn't care less if I never saw any of these dates ever again. In any condition. Maybe with the lackluster coinage out there now, dates and mint marks should be dispensed with entirely. (There was a time when automobiles were exciting. Now cars are nothing but lookalike boxes on wheels.  Those of us who pulled out of the hobby in the late 1960's didn't abandon the hobby; the hobby abandoned us. There was nothing there anymore...there still isn't!

C.  I still cannot understand why anyone would be enamored of clad coins so much that they would identify themselves as being cladking.

OVER!

Edited May 30 by Henri Charriere
Nothing particular.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 5/28/2024 at 4:59 PM, cladking said:

There are lots of variables and a great deal depends on what coins specifically are desired by future collectors.  A lot depends on how you define the terms as well.  I'm going to attempt an answer by defining the terms as coins with the greatest percentage increase in price that are not dependent on being pop tops and not proofs.   1984 1c in solid Gem 1969 25c in nice Gem.   1992 5c in solid Gem 1982-P 25c Gem 1968 DDO dime in vchBU 1976 type I Ike in solid gemmy condition 1966 5C SMS FS 1965 10c SMS FT 1965 dCAM cent 1980-D 50c solid Gem. "vchBU" means a very well made coin with full luster and reasonably clean. (MS-63) "gemmy" means a well made coin with minimal marking and no major strike or die deficiency. (MS-64) "Gem" means a well made well centered coin made by good dies with very little marking.  (MS-65) "solid Gem" allows no grading parameters to be weak or borderline. (Ms-65/66) Services allow worn die strikes and poor strikes to get higher grades and future collectors may not want any coins without full detail/ full strikes.  They also won't want carbon spots and unattractive coins.  "Ugly" plagues almost all clads and especially the early years and the '82/'83 issues.  There are numerous other moderns that are really quite scarce in nice attractive condition or even just nice chBU.  There are quite a few very scarce and important varieties like '71-D/D dimes and '70-S sm dt in high grade.  There are hundreds of highly desirable modern US coins that will probably enjoy spectacular gains some day.    Most of these I know for a fact are rare because my sample size is more than sufficient but others of these can not properly be sampled because all coins "bunch up"; ie- there could be someone with 100 rolls of really nice '84 cents through sheer coincidence.  Despite looking at hundreds of rolls and thousands of mint sets perhaps I was just unluck in finding this coin. Other coins simply won't exist because they weren't saved or didn't appear in mint sets.  For instance 98% of '80-D half dollars in mint sets are scraped.  The 2% that are not scraped are almost always poor strikes or have deficiencies.  People weren't going through rolls of half dollars in 1980 looking for Gems.   I got lucky and found a few in souvenir sets but most of these are gone now and fewer than 1% were Gem.  

I don't know any of those coins but thanks for the list and the underlying rationale. 

I just see 2 problems with your thesis:  supply and/or demand.  If the supply is too big, the price isn't moving up.  If the demand is non-existent, the price isn't moving up.

I understand that you also are extolling CONDITION RARITY but again....for an otherwise "blah" coin I'm not sure that MS-67 or even MS-69 matters.  We have enought problems attracting folks to this hobby....if they DO come in, they want to gravitate towards "story" coins like MSDs or lower-cost gold coins (not necessarily Double Eagles which cost $2,400 a pop).

[cladking]

Nice attractive clad is very hard to find.  Even many of the coins slabbed as high grade can be very unattractive due to poor strikes, poor dies, chicken scratching, and poorly centered strikes.  A very low percentage of clad coins were attractive when the came off the dies and a startling low percentage of these were saved.  Today the kind of quality that people take for granted in older coins can be hard to find in many clads and moderns.  

Try finding any of the above coins raw and see how it goes.  It will give you a feel for what's available.  THEN look for them in high grade slabs and you'll see most of these suffer the exact same problems but are otherwise free of marks.  

1984 cents have very unattractive surfaces.  About 98% are ugly at arms length.  Of the remaining 2% most have carbon spots and they additionally have bubbles and various manufacturing defects. They aren't hard to find with very little marking; they are hard to find attractive.  Try finding a '76 type I dollar that is fully struck by good dies and isn't covered with chicken scratching AND marks.  

 

No!  The problem most assuredly is NOT that the supply is too high.  There may exist not even one of some moderns in true Gem. The problem is lack of demand. There are a mere handful of collectors seeking the best coins and not all of these people even have registry sets.  I believe this number can increase just as the demand for the coins I listed above and are NOT registry set caliber can increase dramatically.  I mean come on, I'm suggesting a nice '80-D half dollar that isn't scraped is tough!  If you don't mind scrapes then there are otherwise nice looking '80-D's everywhere.  If you do mind scrapes they are none to common.  

People consider all moderns "uncollectible" so they don't even look.  This will not persist indefinitely.  

 

 

 

[cladking]

On 5/29/2024 at 7:29 AM, Henri Charriere said:

I still cannot understand why anyone would be enamored of clad coins so much that they would identify themselves as being cladking.

 

Words have many meanings and they all get parsed.  

Nobody points at me in my brand new birthday suit.   

 

Mebbe the meek really will inherit the earth but until then I can play "Pretender to the Throne".  

[VKurtB]

On 5/29/2024 at 11:04 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I don't know any of those coins but thanks for the list and the underlying rationale. 

I just see 2 problems with your thesis:  supply and/or demand.  If the supply is too big, the price isn't moving up.  If the demand is non-existent, the price isn't moving up.

I understand that you also are extolling CONDITION RARITY but again....for an otherwise "blah" coin I'm not sure that MS-67 or even MS-69 matters.  We have enought problems attracting folks to this hobby....if they DO come in, they want to gravitate towards "story" coins like MSDs or lower-cost gold coins (not necessarily Double Eagles which cost $2,400 a pop).

My son’s generation (center of baby boom 40 years later) could not give less of a 💩 about precious metals being in coins. Who says? He does. The fetish of gold and silver is dying as certainly as demographics roll over. 

[zadok]

On 5/30/2024 at 12:03 PM, VKurtB said:

My son’s generation (center of baby boom 40 years later) could not give less of a 💩 about precious metals being in coins. Who says? He does. The fetish of gold and silver is dying as certainly as demographics roll over. 

...do u find this to be true for both US collectors n foreign collectors or is it more one way than the other?....

[cladking]

On 5/30/2024 at 12:00 PM, zadok said:

...do u find this to be true for both US collectors n foreign collectors or is it more one way than the other?....

Hatred of base metal is a one off.  In every country silver was removed from the coinage beginning in 1945.  I've always suspected it was a part of the Breton Woods Agreement.  In each country people stopped collecting new coins when they were debased.  Keep in mind though that in those days more Americans collected foreign coins than the number who collected in those countries. This is still true for more than half of other countries. Americans continued to collect some of these but tended to ignore them.  However they did continue to collect foreign base metal coins that existed before the debasement. 

The switchover to clad was traumatic to most coin collectors beginning in 1964 when it was announced the current date coins would be made for all time killing the BU roll market was was huge at that time.  Then it got much worse from there and there are still open wounds in the hobby to this day.  The biggest such wound is the simple fact that most boomers are never going to even accept clad coins as actually being coins at all.  Even nickels that remained exactly the same in 1965 except far lower mintages could never be seen as actual "coins". 

 

Many coins made since 1945 simply no longer exist.  Attrition in some cases exceeds 99.9% 

Coins that defy the odds are usually heavily won and cull.  There's a new generation collecting these now right in the countries of origin and prices are simply exploding.  

[VKurtB]

On 5/30/2024 at 12:22 PM, cladking said:

Many coins made since 1945 simply no longer exist.  Attrition in some cases exceeds 99.9% 

You REALLY REALLY need to check out bins and tables at shows, including the literal barrels of world coins at the ANA Kids Zone. By the way, at the Monroeville PAN show, the closest dealer to the Exhibits Area had at least 500 BU rolls in his cases, and hundreds of uncirculated and proof sets. They exist. You just hafta get out into meatspace and look. 

Edited May 30 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/30/2024 at 1:22 PM, cladking said:

....The switchover to clad was traumatic to most coin collectors beginning in 1964 ....

there are still open wounds in the hobby to this day. 

The biggest such wound is the simple fact that most boomers are never going to even accept clad coins as actually being coins at all....

Q.A.:  "Trauma"... "open wounds in the hobby"... "boomers (Me!) are never going to accept clad coins"...  Say, I wonder how this guy was able to get ahold of my life story???

🐓  :   

 

[VKurtB]

On 5/30/2024 at 12:00 PM, zadok said:

...do u find this to be true for both US collectors n foreign collectors or is it more one way than the other?....

Even more so in foreign. Except for Switzerland, the U.S. was among the last worldwide to eliminate PM from its circulating coins. The U.S. was also among the highest fineness of silver (.900). The rest of the world was at .835, .800, .720, and all kinds of other stuff. .925 sterling was long gone.

Edited May 30 by VKurtB

[cladking]

On 5/30/2024 at 12:36 PM, VKurtB said:

You REALLY REALLY need to check out bins and tables at shows, including the literal barrels of world coins at the ANA Kids Zone. By the way, at the Monroeville PAN show, the closest dealer to the Exhibits Area had at least 500 BU rolls in his cases, and hundreds of uncirculated and proof sets. They exist. You just hafta get out into meatspace and look. 

There are literally billions of world coins including billions in BU rolls and in mint sets.  

But this simple fact has no effect on the price of tea in China nor in the availability of something like a 1950-E E German 10p coin nor a nice 1967 Japanese 100Y.  You can't make a silk purse of a cow's ear nor a 1954-B Indian 2 a  out of a bicentennial quarter.  There is no kind of eraser that will remove a scrape from a '80-D half dollar or the wear from a '72-D type h quarter.  It's all done.  The fat lady has sung, and the ship sailed.    It doesn't matter that you can lay hands on many thousands of Yugoslavian 50 D because many other coins are gone now.   Yes, there are millions of proof sets but there are few world mint sets and more importantly very few world modern ever existed in mint sets.  

It's not "world moderns" that are rare.  It's most world moderns.  Make a list of all world moderns and 20% of the coins on the list make up 99% of all moderns available.   

Stick it with a fork because most of the coins have already been withdrawn and melted by the issuer.  

[cladking]

Q.A.:  "Trauma"... "open wounds in the hobby"... "boomers (Me!) are never going to accept clad coins"...  Say, I wonder how this guy was able to get ahold of my life story???

Catalogers still list unrealistically low prices for moderns to avoid offending their customers;  boomers.  

[VKurtB]

On 5/30/2024 at 3:53 PM, cladking said:

Q.A.:  "Trauma"... "open wounds in the hobby"... "boomers (Me!) are never going to accept clad coins"...  Say, I wonder how this guy was able to get ahold of my life story???

Catalogers still list unrealistically low prices for moderns to avoid offending their customers;  boomers.  

Yes, THIS is true. What they’re saying is “this is all they’re worth IF you can find them”. The problem is people like me. I want them but I still won’t (and don’t need to) pay up for them. Good clad (actually plated and other base metal too) stuff can stay cheap forever, as far as I care. 

Edited May 30 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 5/30/2024 at 12:03 PM, VKurtB said:

My son’s generation (center of baby boom 40 years later) could not give less of a 💩 about precious metals being in coins. Who says? He does. The fetish of gold and silver is dying as certainly as demographics roll over. 

Do you think they want 1984 coinage ?

[VKurtB]

On 5/31/2024 at 1:25 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Do you think they want 1984 coinage ?

Well, put it another way. They don’t NOT want 1984 coinage. It’s about the quality. 

[VKurtB]

On 5/29/2024 at 7:29 AM, Henri Charriere said:

When's the last time you got a Kennedy in change?

Literally every time I go “home” to Swarzville, Lancaster County, PA’s Weaver’s Family Market. Or the Park Place Diner just down the street (formerly Zinn’s). Or Renninger’s Antique Flea Market nearby, or the former partner of Laura Sperber just 0.2 miles south or the Truist Bank branch at the center of all of them. Even the toll takers at Exit 286 gave half dollars in change, before they went all electronic / EZPass. 

My point? Not everywhere is like New York City, and everywhere else wakes up thanking their friendly neighborhood deity for that fact.

Edited June 1 by VKurtB

[cladking]

On 5/30/2024 at 6:26 PM, VKurtB said:

Yes, THIS is true. What they’re saying is “this is all they’re worth IF you can find them”. The problem is people like me. I want them but I still won’t (and don’t need to) pay up for them. Good clad (actually plated and other base metal too) stuff can stay cheap forever, as far as I care. 

I said ten years ago that if I were a young man I would start collections of aluminum coins.  These have done very well over the last ten years but there is still a great deal f potential in them.  

There are countless greatly undervalued modern coins.  I barely have any aluminum at all because such a high percentage of them are exceedingly common because they tend to be very low denomination. But still there are scarcities and many were made to very very low standards so attractive examples can be very elusive even where many exist.  Try finding nice Indian 10p coins from the '70's and '80's for instance in anything even approaching Gem.  

[VKurtB]

On 6/1/2024 at 2:40 PM, cladking said:

I said ten years ago that if I were a young man I would start collections of aluminum coins.  These have done very well over the last ten years but there is still a great deal f potential in them.  

There are countless greatly undervalued modern coins.  I barely have any aluminum at all because such a high percentage of them are exceedingly common because they tend to be very low denomination. But still there are scarcities and many were made to very very low standards so attractive examples can be very elusive even where many exist.  Try finding nice Indian 10p coins from the '70's and '80's for instance in anything even approaching Gem.  

My aluminum pieces are ALMOST ready for a competitive ANA show exhibit. During my days commuting daily between Lancaster and Harrisburg PA on Amtrak, the visual clue that it was time to gather up my work documents was the yard of aluminum ingots at ALCOA’s Lancaster works. The Harrisburg end visual clue was the rolled coils at the steel mills at Steelton. That was 2010-2017. 

Edited June 1 by VKurtB

[cladking]

On 6/1/2024 at 4:10 PM, VKurtB said:

My aluminum pieces are ALMOST ready for a competitive ANA show exhibit. During my days commuting daily between Lancaster and Harrisburg PA on Amtrak, the visual clue that it was time to gather up my work documents was the yard of aluminum ingots at ALCOA’s Lancaster works. The Harrisburg end visual clue was the rolled coils at the steel mills at Steelton. That was 2010-2017. 

I'm jealous of your aluminum.  

It's probably been more rejected than any other base metal coins and base metal coins are probably the most rejected in history.  Debased silver is always rejected as well but it is still silver and does get some interest.  

I just didn't pay any attention to aluminum unless it was obviously unusual or was Gem.  It seems to come either awful or Gem with relatively little in between.  

[GoldFinger1969]

The only aluminum I have is my Louisville Slugger, plus some No-Stick Reynolds Wrap.

[VKurtB]

On 6/2/2024 at 4:28 PM, cladking said:

I'm jealous of your aluminum.  

It's probably been more rejected than any other base metal coins and base metal coins are probably the most rejected in history.  Debased silver is always rejected as well but it is still silver and does get some interest.  

I just didn't pay any attention to aluminum unless it was obviously unusual or was Gem.  It seems to come either awful or Gem with relatively little in between.  

This is true. Bimodal condition distribution. 

[VKurtB]

On 6/2/2024 at 5:22 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

The only aluminum I have is my Louisville Slugger, plus some No-Stick Reynolds Wrap.

Aluminum coins come from two distinct eras. When aluminum was considered a semi-precious metal, and when large coins with low value were required. 

[Henri Charriere]

Some "off the top of my head" comments...

If we are talking U.S. modern coinage, not in its present deplorable state.

The Lincoln cent is a gaudy caricature of what it once was.  It's had its 15 minutes of fame, served its purpose, and with copper up at record levels, will soon be withdrawn from circulation altogether. All coins containing copper will be debased even further.  The cent no longer serves any useful purpose and if you persist in thinking it does, congratulations, you've successfully deluded yourself.

The Jefferson nickel was nice the way it was. It no longer is and that childish scrawl that passes for J's signature is proof positive there is a lack of serious talent out there. 

The Washington quarter has had a good run but as it's centennial approaches, a design change is in order.

I have nothing bad to say about the Kennedy half but the very fact you rarely come across one is proof positive the public can get along very well without them.

The dollar series has all been disasters from Ike on.

Moderns HOT again?  Don't kid yourself!  The last time coins were alluded to was when that group Menudo was formed.  Now it's 🎶 "Cash Rules Everything Around Me, CREAM, get the money, dolla' dolla' bill y'all." The classic coins -- you know, the only real  coins out there -- were hot, are hot, and will always remain hot. If it weren't for JB, NN, and RWB, I don't believe I would have known about tokens, half cents and the use of the toggle press in minting coins.

You know when Moderns will be HOT?  When they stop minting them.

Edited June 4 by Henri Charriere
To correct lyrics yo that rap classic.

[VKurtB]

On 6/2/2024 at 6:16 PM, Henri Charriere said:

The cent no longer serves any useful purpose and if you persist in thinking it does, congratulations, you've successfully deluded yourself.

It’s a de facto sales tax token today. Europe’s countries INCLUDE the taxes in the shelf price. Because it that, the practical smallest denomination is the 20 euro cent. 

[VKurtB]

On 6/2/2024 at 6:16 PM, Henri Charriere said:

The Jefferson nickel was nice the way it was. It no longer is and that childish scrawl that passes for J's signature is proof positive there is a lack of serious talent out there. 

No, the Liberty scrawl IS a PostScript font, and not anyone’s signature. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/30/2024 at 4:53 PM, cladking said:

....Catalogers still list unrealistically low prices for moderns to avoid offending their customers;  boomers.  

I don't know how or why I let this unobtrusive assertion slide by me unchallenged. If what you've written here is true, than @Just Bob deliberately lied to me.  He figuratively offered to show me the ropes in this business, including the etched-in- marble correlation beteeen supply and demand.

I believe I am owed an apology. From someone. No one at anytime in all the years I have spent following the hobby, ever extended to me the courtesy of bringing this indispensible variable to my attention... "listing unrealistically low prices for moderns to avoid offending their customers: boomers."

Is this thing on?!  Why was this critical information withheld from me?  I don't want to hear any apologies! I am 72! I've got one foot in the grave!  Inexcusable!  🤣

[cladking]

On 6/4/2024 at 3:48 PM, Henri Charriere said:

I don't know how or why I let this unobtrusive assertion slide by me unchallenged. If what you've written here is true, than @Just Bob deliberately lied to me.  He figuratively offered to show me the ropes in this business, including the etched-in- marble correlation beteeen supply and demand.

I believe I am owed an apology. From someone. No one at anytime in all the years I have spent following the hobby, ever extended to me the courtesy of bringing this indispensible variable to my attention... "listing unrealistically low prices for moderns to avoid offending their customers: boomers."

Is this thing on?!  Why was this critical information withheld from me?  I don't want to hear any apologies! I am 72! I've got one foot in the grave!  Inexcusable!  🤣

It wasn't so much "withheld" as it is a simple matter that "moderns" are not really even considered a part of the numismatic hobby to most dealers, collectors, and numismatists. 

Until the mid-'90's stores and Madison Avenue depicted coins as 1964 and earlier.  Moderns didn't even appear in price guides until the mid-'70's.  Redbook lists prices only up through MS-65 with no mention of the fact that higher grades can be worth considerably more.  

Most of the very worst pricing issues have been resolved over the years.  Back in the mid-'90's they listed something like a '24-D cent in VF ~$30 IMS.   At that time you couldn't give these away.  A retail customer might pay so much but there were no retail customers.  If you actually wanted to sell one you better discount it to only  a few dollars.  At that time I could actually sell many moderns for for three or times the Redbook price.  

Another problem hinges on definitions.  Moderns are graded to the same standards as classics by the standards of the services and this creates some ugly coins in high grade holders as well as some nice Gems in lower grade holders.  

Then you have interpretation of the meaning of the prices.  Some guides actually state that in order to bring the lofty price of $1 in MS-63 a 1977 quarter must be in a TPG holder!  This is ludicrous on many levels not least of which is that one of the best attributes of moderns is they don't need to be graded because if they look Unc they are in virtually every single case. The trick isn't to find an example that's actually Unc with no cabinet friction, the trick is to find one that's attractive.   There are no AU's or XF's or even VF's.  There are no sliders except for the '82 and '83 issues.   

Back in the mid-'90's for several years I advertised to pay $40 each for Gem '82 quarters.  At that time these listed for $40 per roll.  I was hoping the few people who set rolls aside would go through their rolls and send me the best few.  Despite dozens of ads in various coin papers I got very few responses and even fewer actual coins.   Half of what I did get was just junk people pulled out of pocket change.  This was 1994 and anyone who thinks you can walk into any coin shop and buy a Gem '82-P quarter for the Redbook price today of $35 (less that what I offered one and a half generations ago) is simply wrong.  You will not find a coin shop with one in stock, and any that has a high grade slab will contain a poorly struck coin made by worn out dies.  All those ads and I didn't actually by a single Gem.  I did pay $40 for a small handful of nice gemmy (MS-64) specimens.  I just kept trying because I hoped someone would have a cache of them.  

I once sent in a remarkably clean 1987-D cent struck by brand new dies with a perfect strike and minimal PL appearance. I was hoping to get a new pop top.  It came back MS-65.   At this grade I spent $20 to have what might be the best '87-D cent in a holder that is valued at 30c by Redbook today!!!  But it has to be graded to be worth 30c.  

 

The older classic markets are sufficiently mature that most coins can trade at prices reflective of their value among a large population of collectors.  Everyone wants to see high and ever increasing prices.  

Modern markets are very immature and there are very few collectors.  One of the reasons these markets are so immature is that price guides are artificially kept low and one of the chief reasons is that when their customers see modern prices they don't want to see high prices.  

I would wager most mentors wouldn't know a modern coin if it bit them on the nose.  Odds are pretty good that they don't consider them real coins.  

Edited June 6 by cladking