1925 Gold Dollar 1 1

[morganmanny]

What is the grade of this coin?

Is the ring around the edge a minting error?

What would a dealer sell this coin for?

[Sandon]

   This coin is a 1925-D $2.50 gold piece, also known as a quarter eagle, of the Indian Head design minted from 1908-1915 and 1925-1929. Unfortunately, coins of this type have been extensively counterfeited, with the 1925-D listed ninth on NGC's list of fifty most frequently counterfeited U.S. coins. See 9. 1925-D Indian $2.50 | NGC (ngccoin.com) for diagnostics of some known counterfeits.  Coins of this type have also been used in jewelry and become impaired (damaged) from this use.

   Your photos are too low in resolution to give me any basis for an opinion as to whether the coin is genuine or whether it is unimpaired or to get a firm idea of its grade, which could be About Uncirculated. The ring around the edge could have resulted from use in jewelry. (In any event, it is nothing that would add value to the coin.)  A genuine, unimpaired coin in About Uncirculated condition would have a current retail value of approximately $525.  

[morganmanny]

On 3/19/2024 at 11:06 PM, Sandon said:

   This coin is a 1925-D $2.50 gold piece, also known as a quarter eagle, of the Indian Head design minted from 1908-1915 and 1925-1929. Unfortunately, coins of this type have been extensively counterfeited, with the 1925-D listed ninth on NGC's list of fifty most frequently counterfeited U.S. coins. See 9. 1925-D Indian $2.50 | NGC (ngccoin.com) for diagnostics of some known counterfeits.  Coins of this type have also been used in jewelry and become impaired (damaged) from this use.

   Your photos are too low in resolution to give me any basis for an opinion as to whether the coin is genuine or whether it is unimpaired or to get a firm idea of its grade, which could be About Uncirculated. The ring around the edge could have resulted from use in jewelry. (In any event, it is nothing that would add value to the coin.)  A genuine, unimpaired coin in About Uncirculated condition would have a current retail value of approximately $525.  

Sorry I am new to message boards... just found the quote button. 

Please bear with me I did scan the the newbie instructions and tried to follow  I am dyslecsic and take me a long time to type and my spelling is poor so please excuse me.

For the photos if there is a better easier way I am all ears. 

I reposted photos of my first coin in another format hoping they can be viewed in better resolution.

My process was: I used an iPhone and that gives me the format .heic - then I sent to google drive> downloaded from drive and saved to desktop, then posted to message board by attaching from desktop

 

As for this gold coin:

The jewelry use seems to fit!  This coin was in a jewelry box but nothing other than the coin in a paper sleeve and dated 1929 O.M. Nordling 5249 Clark St. Chicago IL

I believe the rings are an impairment caused by use of coin as jewelry at one point.

Does this damage affect the value greatly?

 

I appreciate your time and knowledge and would like to get know more about this hobby.

-Manny

 

[Coinbuf]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:44 PM, morganmanny said:

 

Does this damage affect the value greatly?

 

Yes and no, currently no because the spot price of gold is at all-time highs coins that have issues or are impaired in some way (like ex jewelry coins) are selling for the same prices as unimpaired coins that grade in the AU range.   Your coin would have to grade in MS64 or better to rise above the current spot gold price which today was around $2,162 per ounce.   The only real difference is it can be easier to sell an unimpaired coin to a coin collector who may not want such an impaired coin.   Most dealers would sell this for spot + 5%, they would buy it at spot - 5%.

Yes if, and this is a big if, in the future should the spot price of gold retreat, that is when you could see a difference in value for your ex jewelry coin vs an unimpaired AU coin.

Edited March 20 by Coinbuf

[Sandon]

   I use a digital microscope that plugs into my computer to image coins (also not the best images) and can't give you advice on how to use a smartphone, but some of the other forum members may be able to help you. (You might want to post future topics on the Newbie Coin Collecting Questions forum.) The photos of your 1925-D quarter eagle are too small and too grainy to see much detail. I was unable to enlarge them much and really can't see much about the coin. (It wouldn't be possible to definitely authenticate or grade the coin from even the best photos.)

   For comparison, here are (1) photos that I took of a genuine 1925-D quarter eagle graded MS 62 (Uncirculated) by PCGS and (2) photos taken professionally by Stacks Bowers, a major numismatic auction house, of a genuine 1911 quarter eagle graded MS 63 (Choice Uncirculated) by NGC.

   An "ex-jewelry" or otherwise impaired coin is undesirable to collectors and would sell at a discount, perhaps a substantial one from a coin in otherwise equivalent grade. I respectfully disagree with @Coinbuf about your coin because the gold value of a quarter eagle is currently around $260, while an unimpaired AU 1925-D lists over $500. 

   

Edited March 20 by Sandon

[Coinbuf]

@Sandon please post any dealer or bullion operation that is selling impaired AU dets quarter eagles for $260, I would love to load up at that price as that would be significantly under spot.   The term "a rising tide lifts all boats" is in full effect with the rising spot price, I'm not sure that you could even buy half a coin at $260 today.

[GoldFinger1969]

MM, your current photos of the coin are approximatly 400x400 which is low-resolution.

If you have a smartphone it should at least quintuple those figures and give us a good Hi-Def pics.  

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:58 AM, Coinbuf said:

@Sandon please post any dealer or bullion operation that is selling impaired AU dets quarter eagles for $260, I would love to load up at that price as that would be significantly under spot.   The term "a rising tide lifts all boats" is in full effect with the rising spot price, I'm not sure that you could even buy half a coin at $260 today.

Did he say that you could buy them at that price ?  I think he said their GOLD VALUE was about 1/8th of an ounce or about $260 or a bit higher.

[Sandon]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:05 AM, Coinbuf said:

 Your coin would have to grade in MS64 or better to rise above the current spot gold price which today was around $2,162 per ounce.

   I take this to mean that this quarter eagle, whose current bullion value is approximately $260, wouldn't be worth more than that unless it graded at least MS 64. I disagreed because an unimpaired AU currently retails above $500. However, a substantially impaired piece, such as one removed from jewelry, might not sell for much more than the bullion value.

[GoldFinger1969]

Just curious....what are the total mint productions for Eagles and how many survived ?

Just trying to get a handle on their relative size compard to Saints, where you had 72 MM struck (approx) and just under 4 MM survived to this date.

[Sandon]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:58 AM, Coinbuf said:

please post any dealer or bullion operation that is selling impaired AU dets quarter eagles for $260, I would love to load up at that price as that would be significantly under spot

@Coinbuf--A quarter eagle contains only 0.12904 oz. of gold and if whole contains $266.96 in gold at today's closing price. See U.S. Gold Coin Melt Values | Gold Coin Prices | NGC Coin Melt Value. Yesterday it would have been worth about $262 as I recall, so $260 wouldn't be "significantly under spot." Many common date gold coins that are "ex-jewelry" are so severely damaged (not just "cleaned" or lightly scratched) that in my experience they are of no interest to collectors and are only saleable as scrap or for further jewelry use.  I am not currently able to assess the authenticity or condition of the OP's coin.  

[Coinbuf]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:19 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Did he say that you could buy them at that price ?  I think he said their GOLD VALUE was about 1/8th of an ounce or about $260 or a bit higher.

No I did not say that or imply that, I said please tell me any dealer or bullion operation that is selling AU dets $2 1/2 gold coins for melt values, I don't know of a single one that is selling any gold coin for melt.    There is a big difference between melt and spot and theory and reality, in theory a junk gold coin should sell for melt, but the reality of this market is that those coins actually sell close spot even though most are less than 100% pure gold content.

On 3/20/2024 at 3:44 PM, Sandon said:

@Coinbuf--A quarter eagle contains only 0.12904 oz. of gold and if whole contains $266.96 in gold at today's closing price. See U.S. Gold Coin Melt Values | Gold Coin Prices | NGC Coin Melt Value. Yesterday it would have been worth about $262 as I recall, so $260 wouldn't be "significantly under spot." Many common date gold coins that are "ex-jewelry" are so severely damaged (not just "cleaned" or lightly scratched) that in my experience they are of no interest to collectors and are only saleable as scrap or for further jewelry use.  I am not currently able to assess the authenticity or condition of the OP's coin.  

I am well aware where to fine melt values, you do not need to lecture to me on this.   What you seem to not understand is how impaired gold is currently traded in this market, nobody that I have seen or know of is buying or selling cleaned or ex jewelry coins for melt, that is just not true.   Impaired gold coins sell at or near spot, yes it is true that most classic gold coins are 90 or 92% gold and thus should sell at a discount to spot.   But that is not the reality of this market, stackers are more than willing to pay prices that are above melt and close to spot for impaired coins and unimpaired coins that grade less than MS63/MS64 depending on the spot price.

As I noted in my reply to GF the rise in spot gold price has compressed the premium of coins that grade less than MS64, here is a section of Gerry Fortin's blog where he discusses this.

Here is an example of what most sellers are asking for impaired gold, this is copied from a facebook group that if for classic gold only this was posted just one hour ago.   This particular coin is a common date $10 piece but as you can see this is priced above melt which as of now would be almost $1,060 for a Liberty head eagle.

Here is another post in that group from one day ago selling common date unimpaired AUish $2 1/2 Indians (there actually is a 25-D in this group he is selling), for $390 ea, well below your $500 estimate.

And one more, in this case another 25-D $2 1/2 posted yesterday selling for well above melt but in this case below spot, which is somewhat unusual.

@Sandon please do not lecture to me on something that you seem unfamiliar with, none of the examples I have provided to you are atypical of what I see every day.   I follow this and other gold groups and sites and am quite familiar with how both unimpaired and impaired gold is being priced in this current market.   However, and again, if you know of a source that is selling details gold $1 or $2 1/2 for melt values ($1 gold is $106 and $2 1/2 is at $262 as I type this) I'm all ears and would love to purchase some at melt prices.

Edited March 21 by Coinbuf

[Henri Charriere]

With the OP's indulgence, I should like to offer a  scenario by which sellers (dealers and hobbyists, alike) have unintentionally and inadvertently advertised impaired gold coins for sale at below-gold melt prices. I take the side of neither combatant above. Rather, in the spirit of a well-liked member, who has gone to his eternal reward, I do so solely in the interest of "broadening the body of knowledge."

Very often, in times of great volatility, the spot price of gold will overtake a seller's advertised price. Having just posted the current melt price of a 20-franc gold rooster on this Forum's dedicated thread, I turned my attention to perusing offerings on eBay and, not surprisingly, spotted a "holed" example whose price had been overtaken by the melt value and contacted the seller to bring the discrepancy to his attention. He thanked me and, then $20 under, he raised his price $40.

The sense I get is, to avoid such incidences from occurring, sellers pad their prices to accommodate fluctuations. The practical side is, with a buffer, constant monitoring is not necessary.  I speak strictly from personal observation and experience.

 

Edited March 21 by Henri Charriere
Omit one word.

[Henri Charriere]

On 3/20/2024 at 11:35 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Just curious....what are the total mint productions for Eagles and how many survived ?....

(Respectfully, I do not believe "how many survived?" is a knowable, ascertainable fact. I had always thought mintage figures were chiseled in granite until RWB, in a recently posted topic, proved otherwise. That left certifications which anecdotal evidence suggests are not reliable.)  

Edited March 22 by Henri Charriere
Die polishing

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/21/2024 at 1:14 PM, Coinbuf said:

As I noted in my reply to GF the rise in spot gold price has compressed the premium of coins that grade less than MS64, here is a section of Gerry Fortin's blog where he discusses this.

Interesting blog and I see why some people might have interest in his blog.  Never heard of the guy before.

What would make his blog more interesting to more people if he had dedicated sections and repeated them daily or from time-to-time....i.e., Saints, Morgans, Franklin Halves, etc.  If anybody knows anybody like that, I'm all ears.   The guy who owns a Rare Coins dealership in New Hampshire (I have him bookmarked somwhere) had some good observations and insights on FUN 2024.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 3/21/2024 at 9:35 PM, Henri Charriere said:

(Respectfully, I do not believe "how many survived?" is a knowable, ascertainable fact.

Estimate is good enough....RWB did one in his book.

[zadok]

On 3/21/2024 at 7:43 PM, Henri Charriere said:

With the OP's indulgence, I should like to offer a  scenario by which sellers (dealers and hobbyists, alike) have unintentionally and inadvertently advertised impaired gold coins for sale at below-gold melt prices. I take the side of neither combatant above. Rather, in the spirit of a well-liked member, who has gone to his eternal reward, I do so solely in the interest of "broadening the body of knowledge."

Very often, in times of great volatility, the spot price of gold will overtake a seller's advertised price. Having just posted the current melt price of a 20-franc gold rooster on this Forum's dedicated thread, I turned my attention to perusing offerings on eBay and, not surprisingly, spotted a "holed" example whose price had been overtaken by the melt value and contacted the seller to bring the discrepancy to his attention. He thanked me and, then $20 under, he raised his price $40.

The sense I get is, to avoid such incidences from occurring, sellers pad their prices to accommodate fluctuations. The practical side is, with a buffer, constant monitoring is not necessary.  I speak strictly from personal observation and experience.

 

...sadder n sadder, ur continued references to the "well-liked member" is shameful...he couldnt stand ur presence on the forum n justifiably so...very doubtful anyone here will refer to u in the same manner...too bad the moderators r so indifferent to the wishes of the aforementioned departed member, guess they r starving for participants....

[Henri Charriere]

On 3/22/2024 at 9:53 AM, zadok said:

...sadder n sadder, ur continued references to the "well-liked member" is shameful...he couldnt stand ur presence on the forum n justifiably so...very doubtful anyone here will refer to u in the same manner...too bad the moderators r so indifferent to the wishes of the aforementioned departed member, guess they r starving for participants....

Do you have a reply to this Topic???

[zadok]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:00 AM, Henri Charriere said:

Do you have a reply to this Topic???

...yep, just following thru on a promise i made....

[Henri Charriere]

On 3/22/2024 at 11:25 AM, zadok said:

...yep, just following thru on a promise i made....

If you see a violation of the board guidelines you should report it.  There is an app for that... the three horizontal dots at the upper right-hand corner of every post.

[zadok]

On 3/22/2024 at 11:44 AM, Henri Charriere said:

If you see a violation of the board guidelines you should report it.  There is an app for that... the three horizontal dots at the upper right-hand corner of every post.

...oh QA its much more than any board guidelines as u well know...all in time....

[dcarr]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:28 PM, morganmanny said:

What is the grade of this coin?

Is the ring around the edge a minting error?

What would a dealer sell this coin for?

The pictures are too small to be conclusive.

But from what I can see, the coin appears to be genuine, and possibly MS-63 vicinity.

The rings are NOT from jewelry mounting. They are an affect of worn dies and they are often seen on $2.50 Native-Head gold.

 

[morganmanny]

Would you get this coin graded?

 

I saw many different levels of service and cost for grading services.

What do you suggest?