2016 P Rosevelt North Dakota doubling 1 1

[Rob’s Coins]

I’ve been searching my change, new to coin collecting.  I found this coin which looks like it has doubling.  Is it unique?  Worth having it graded in your opinion?

Rob

[VKurtB]

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 

Edited January 3 by VKurtB

[Rob’s Coins]

Well, guess that answers that.  thanks!

[Greenstang]

That is Machine Doubling, a worthless type of doubling that occurs on over 60% of the Statehood quarters.

[EagleRJO]

I see some doubling, but it appears to be the "worthless" type ...

http://doubleddie.com/144801.html

And no it shouldn't be submitted if Kurt didn't make that clear.  

[Sandon]

    Welcome to the NGC chat board.

    Your 2016-P Theodore Roosevelt National Park quarter appears to exhibit shelf-like strike doubling, a.k.a. machine doubling or mechanical doubling, which is caused by a die that was loose in the press. See Double Dies vs. Machine Doubling | NGC (ngccoin.com). Coins exhibiting this form of doubling, which is very common, are not valued by collectors.

   Doubled die varieties, which may have value if significant, are caused by the doubling being in the die itself and result from the die "hub" being shifted in position between blows during the making of the die. In or about 1996, the U.S. mint changed its die production method to one involving a "single squeeze" of the hub against the die blank, which eliminated the creation of all but minor doubled die varieties.  The "doubleddie.com" website lists two minor doubled die reverse varieties for the 2016-P T.R. Park quarter, but the doubling is on certain of the devices, not the lettering. See https://www.doubleddie.com/2320437.html.

[VKurtB]

On 1/2/2024 at 6:35 PM, EagleRJO said:

And no it shouldn't be submitted if Kurt didn't make that clear.  

What also should not be done is coin roll hunting in order to put coins under a digital microscope screen in order to look for something "unusual or different". That wastes the practitioner's time and resources, only LATER wasting OUR resources and/or time. Why do I say that? Because 99,999,999/100,000,000 of the time, there is no "there" there, YouTube representations to the contrary. We see the results of the a) Google it, b) watch the YouTube video from some charlatan, c) go on ngccoin.com and ask about it, d) argue because YouTube said something different {inhale, exhale with exasperation} process. If you simply MUST watch YouTube videos, search for them on www.money.org and ONLY, ONLY, ONLY watch those.

Edited January 3 by VKurtB

[Rob’s Coins]

I am curious to learn more about the subject and I have one more newbie question.  You sent some examples of true grass doubling.  I normally just check the NGC site for variety plus since these seem to be the true representations and the examples worth money.  But in your case you sent grass doubling which I don’t believe is on there.  How long does it normally take for varieties to be validated?  If I do get educated to the point that I feel I can ascertain a variety on my own.  How do people submit this?  How and why do they get approved?  Due to popularity, or does someone go back to the main dies to verify.   Don’t want a huge response that will take me hours to read.  Just give me the highlights, interested to learn. :-). Or point me to an older thread. ;-)

[VKurtB]

On 1/2/2024 at 7:23 PM, Rob75B11 said:

How long does it normally take for varieties to be validated?

Honestly, far longer than it should, and with Bob Wexler's retirement, it will probably be getting longer. Bob was one of the primary "pushers" and "true believers" on die varieties. There is no one so err, umm, doctrinaire about them to replace him.

Edited January 3 by VKurtB

[Sandon]

On 1/2/2024 at 8:23 PM, Rob75B11 said:

I am curious to learn more about the subject and I have one more newbie question.

   First of all, you must understand, that the identification of die varieties and mint errors are traditionally areas for advanced collectors, not "newbies". To be successful in collecting U.S. coins, you should first learn about more basic subjects, including design types, dates and mints, grading, basic authentication, and how coins are made before you should move into these more advanced areas of collecting. Without this more basic knowledge, it may be difficult for you even to know what questions to ask or what to look for when examining coins. 

   Second, you must understand that coins of substantial interest or value are very rarely found in circulation.  In my approaching 53 years of collecting and checking my and sometimes other people's change, I have never found any coin worth more than a few dollars in circulation, whether based on its composition, date and mint, condition, variety or mint error. I know of only one person who ever has, this being a member of my coin club who received an uncirculated Lincoln cent overstruck by Jefferson nickel dies in change at a grocery store a few years ago. My knowledge, has, however, enabled me to "cherrypick" some better varieties out of dealers' lower priced coins, and I do know collectors who have found significant pieces among lots at estate sales and the like.

On 1/2/2024 at 8:23 PM, Rob75B11 said:

you sent grass doubling which I don’t believe is on there.

  I'm not sure whether you are referring to one of the minor doubled dies shown on doubleddie.com or your own coin. Unless you have "normal" coins of this design for comparison, it may be unclear whether or not the coin shows doubling or any other anomaly. Since 1999, the mint has used over 100 different reverse designs on quarters, which makes it difficult to become familiar with any of them.

On 1/2/2024 at 8:23 PM, Rob75B11 said:

How do people submit this?  How and why do they get approved?  

   NGC and PCGS only attribute die varieties that have significant interest in the marketplace. NGC, for example, generally does not attribute varieties that aren't listed on VarietyPlus.  You would have to make a major discovery for an exception to be made; otherwise, you would be wasting your money should you submit a purported unlisted variety. ANACS (www.anacs.com) attributes a wider range of varieties and charges less than NGC or PCGS but may not attribute minor or new varieties that have not been previously recognized on sites such as doubleddie.com and varietyvista.com. 

    Presently, the only legitimate entity I know of that accepts submissions of coins for examination for new varieties is CONECA. See https://conecaonline.org/examination-services/. Perhaps others on this board will have additional suggestions.

   Please refer to the following topics to learn more of the basics of coin collecting:

 

   

    You would also benefit from attending coin shows and coin club meetings, where you can view a variety of coins and speak with experienced collectors and dealers.

[Rob’s Coins]

Perfect,  thank you all for your responses.  I do try to buy a proof silver eagle every year and recently got some old coins from my grandfather.  Unfortunately I really don’t know how much he knew about formal collecting.  Seems like a good winter hobby though! :-).  And he didn’t pass his knowledge on this down, probably thought it would be boring for a six year old,  Anyway, I appreciate the advice which is why I’m posting to the newbie forum.  I have a science bachelors and an engineering masters so I’m not one to believe everything on the internet.  I do find it relaxing to dig in, sort through change, and learn from the roots.  Found cud errors and some known die errors.  A few bucks each as you mentioned. I’ll definitely do some more studying on the subject. The sites you provided will help a lot!!  Thanks you!!

[VKurtB]

When I lived in Pennsylvania, I was a regular at the Red Rose Coin Club of Lancaster, PA. Served as President in 2013. We had one member named Charlie (last name MAY resurface) who managed our annual club medal program. He was also well regarded in the local Chamber of Commerce. He once reported that he had been asked to check over a box of coins for a local person in a very similar situation as our OP here. There was mostly not much there, but there were some nice collector coins in there. Nice Walkers, older nickels, and some neat small cents. Charlie put the box on the dais where the President stood, and invited members to check the box at the coffee break. He said there's something interesting in there.

There was.

There was a 1955 doubled die obverse cent in there, not in ANY holder, just loose, in AU condition, easily. Maybe even a brown MS coin. What makes the story work is how rare and unbelievable it was and is. Charlie is a very honorable and honest gentleman. I just ran into him in November at the Baltimore Whitman show.

That unaware person sold that one coin, with Charlie's guidance, for north of $2,200. Unfortunately, MOST other numismatists I know would have stolen it from the guy.

Edited January 3 by VKurtB