Coin Awed Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 Greetings Would appreciate knowledgeable opinIons on the pitting on the face of this coin, and its general condition. Bought in the 1970’s. Haven’t had it graded yet, what do you think? Cleaned? Value? Thanks GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 Looks quite nice but you are probably going to be asked to exhume the coin and provide more helpful close-ups of the two sides and the pitting you see. (They are not plainly visible as presented.) GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 Looks scratched and buffed to me. VKurtB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 (edited) Welcome to the forum, unfortunately your double eagle absolutely looks like it has been cleaned from your photos. That will reduce the value quite significantly, however, it is difficult to know how much. I found only one record of an NGC graded 1858 as cleaned that sold on GC. This auction is quite old so I would think that even a cleaned example would sell for a higher price than this old auction as gold prices have risen since 2013. Edited November 26, 2023 by Coinbuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coin Awed Posted November 26, 2023 Author Share Posted November 26, 2023 I will post new photos in the near future after taking it out of the folder. Not sure if the scratches are on the coin or the clear plastic cover…thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted November 26, 2023 Share Posted November 26, 2023 Welcome to the NGC chat board. Although better photos (cropped to show the coin more closely and not the surface on which it sits, upright, and without shadows) would help, it appears that this double eagle was polished or otherwise "cleaned", probably in a misguided effort to remove raised corrosion or adhesions from environmental exposure. The coin may have previously either been buried in the ground or immersed in seawater. The unnatural glossy shine and hairline scratches, which appear to be on the coin, not the 2x2 holder, are indicative of such a "cleaning". Be sure to remove the staples from the 2x2 holder before removing the coin! Many coins have been scratched by the dangling edges of staples while being removed from such holders. The coin appears to have About Uncirculated to Uncirculated details. It is not one of the most common dates of its type, and if unimpaired, it would have had retail list values on the NGC Price Guide ranging from $3,250 (AU 50) to perhaps $14,500 (MS 61). Liberty Head $20 (1850-1907) | Price Guide & Values | NGC (ngccoin.com) It is difficult to value an impaired coin. As any double eagle contains nearly a full troy ounce of gold (officially 0.9675 oz.), its bullion value, nearly $1,940 at Friday's gold price, may be considered a "floor" for its value. U.S. Gold Coin Melt Values | Gold Coin Prices | NGC Coin Melt Value. The coin probably cost a few hundred dollars in the 1970s. I have assumed that the coin is genuine. There are many fakes, some of which nevertheless contain gold. It is probably worth submitting to a grading service if for no other reason than authentication. If you are inexperienced in doing so, you should probably consult a dealer who is an authorized submitter. See Find Coin Shops & Dealers | Coin Dealer Locator | NGC (ngccoin.com). GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coin Awed Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 Would you say all gold coins should be authenticated through grading? With the price of gold the way it is…seems like the cost might be worth it… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) On 11/26/2023 at 5:44 PM, Coin Awed said: Would you say all gold coins should be authenticated through grading? With the price of gold the way it is…seems like the cost might be worth it… My answer is if you are wanting to sell then most of the time it is a wise idea with gold at its current price levels, it is certainly not required, but it can be helpful in todays digital age to have gold coins authenticated and have quality photos. Both NGC and PCGS offer quality high resolution photos at very reasonable prices. IF you plan to hold the coin for a long time then there is no need to spend those monies on certification, unless you are just curious. Edited November 27, 2023 by Coinbuf Sandon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coin Awed Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 Thank you, appreciate the responses. I will be posting more pictures. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) On 11/26/2023 at 7:44 PM, Coin Awed said: Would you say all gold coins should be authenticated through grading? With the price of gold the way it is…seems like the cost might be worth it… Welcome !! A personal choice on common coins like Double Eagles that are worth spot gold at worst, but with any coins that have some date scarcity or condition scarcity value....it could be worth it. A holder also is a good way to protect the coin, make it easy to handle, and ease in the ability to facilitate a future transaction. FYI, there are a number of Double Eagle and Gold Coin threads here if that is something you'll be pursuing either collection-wise or interest-wise. Edited November 27, 2023 by GoldFinger1969 Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 Submission, in addition to the reasons set forth above, would be indicated if only to put to rest all the speculation regarding the actual condition, and possible cause of the conditions alluded to, but some properly taken photos with adequate lighting and minus shadows, posted here, will enable experienced viewers to weigh in conclusively and ought to be the first order of business. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 On 11/26/2023 at 7:44 PM, Coin Awed said: Would you say all gold coins should be authenticated through grading? Authentication and grading are two very important but different skills that are not, as your statement implies, exclusively possessed by third-party grading services that encapsulate coins, which have only existed since 1986, when PCGS opened for business. Every serious collector needs to know how to grade coins and have sufficient authentication skills to at least be able to identify the more obvious fakes. The authenticity of a coin is a question of fact, while grading, especially for unworn coins, is to some extent one of opinion. Third-party grading services such as NGC and PCGS do not grade coins that they have determined to be counterfeit or altered to resemble more valuable issues, and they have expertise and special equipment, such as XRF machines, that hopefully enable them to make this determination for the more deceptive pieces. See NGC Counterfeit Detection | Identify Counterfeit Coins | NGC (ngccoin.com). Their opinions as to a coin's grade are just that--opinions--but ones that tend to be accepted as reasonable in the numismatic marketplace because of their reputations and because they neither buy nor sell the coins they grade. My usual advice to new or inexperienced collectors or non-collectors who own coins is that they should not submit coins to grading services, as for most coins they would be unable to determine whether the coin is worth the substantial cost of such services without being unable to grade and otherwise evaluate the coin themselves. Your coin is an exception due to its high bullion value if genuine and possible additional numismatic value. Unfortunately, many smaller denomination gold coins, such as gold dollars and Indian Head quarter eagles, are among the most frequently counterfeited coins. Therefore, it is probably worthwhile to submit most classic (pre-1934) U.S. gold coins, with an exception for those of low denomination that if genuine are in such poor condition as to be worth less than $300 or so. GoldFinger1969 and Henri Charriere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 (edited) If by pitting you mean the black spots "The Black Goo" (which under magnification is greenish/brown verdigris) above the bust then those are copper spots. This is caused by trace amounts of copper and/or silver in the gold coin. Gold does not corrode or oxidize but copper and silver both corrode and oxidize. This happens from the inside out. Thats where the "spots" or "pits" you see come from ..up from inside the coin to the surface. Debris such as dirt and skin follicles can build up on these eruptions causing even more unsightly smudges. NCS can help conserve your coin. Your coin has also been cleaned and polished as many of these gold coins were in the old days as cherished family items. Edited November 27, 2023 by Mike Meenderink GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coin Awed Posted November 28, 2023 Author Share Posted November 28, 2023 More pics: not sure if they’re any good at showing the coin more definitively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coin Awed Posted November 28, 2023 Author Share Posted November 28, 2023 GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 Still cleaned and polished. Nice coin but from a collectors stand point originality is lost. Good luck! GoldFinger1969 and Sandon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted November 28, 2023 Share Posted November 28, 2023 The cleaning marks are clearly visible on Liberty's cheeks and in the fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
