Question on having coins graded. 0

[ldhair]

I know that PCGS and NGC will crack coins out of questionable holders for you and grade the coins. I'm happy they will do this. It would be a big time saver for me. This is my question.

Will the graders ever see the old slab or the opinion the questionable other service gave the coins? I would think the coins go to the grading room as raw with no information about the old slab.

[Zebo]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:50 AM, ldhair said:

I know that PCGS and NGC will crack coins out of questionable holders for you and grade the coins. I'm happy they will do this. It would be a big time saver for me. This is my question.

Will the graders ever see the old slab or the opinion the questionable other service gave the coins? I would think the coins go to the grading room as raw with no information about the old slab.

I have been led to believe that the graders will NOT see the previous grade. I’ve been told this several times from former graders and I believe that NGC states that someplace on their website.

[Hoghead515]

Ive wondered this myself. If its better to crack it out and send back in raw or let them crack it out? Ive wondered if seeing the previous grade has any influence on their second opinion.  Ive got a couple Id like to send back in one of these days that look undergraded to me compared to others I have. Or they are close and the ones I compared them to are overgraded.  

[“”]

If the coin is in a PCGS holder I choose not to crack it out. Reason being, if it does not cross you will still pay some fees and have no guarantee that PCGS would give the same grade when resubmitted to them in addition to their fees.

Other company holders I leave the coin alone as I bought the coin for the coin and not the holder.

 
 

[Zebo]

I always leave it in the original holder and do not crack them out for that reason, but if you crack them out I believe that the graders will have a better look at the coin and will result in more successful crossovers as a result. Tough choice.

[ldhair]

I don't believe in changing holders without a really good reason. One reason is if the coin needs conservation before it's too late. Another is the situation that I'm in. I need the coins in NGC and PCGS holders for auction. 

[zadok]

On 11/5/2023 at 11:06 AM, ldhair said:

I don't believe in changing holders without a really good reason. One reason is if the coin needs conservation before it's too late. Another is the situation that I'm in. I need the coins in NGC and PCGS holders for auction. 

...?? so u r indicating the coins will bring greater auction results depending on which tpg holder they r in?....

[ldhair]

On 11/5/2023 at 11:20 AM, zadok said:

...?? so u r indicating the coins will bring greater auction results depending on which tpg holder they r in?....

Yes. No question. I also need help from NCS and they will send them over to NGC. 

[zadok]

On 11/5/2023 at 2:27 PM, ldhair said:

Yes. No question. I also need help from NCS and they will send them over to NGC. 

...interesting, i see some preference among dealers between the two tpgs n whether US or foreign coins in diff holders but have not noticed much diff in auction results...the biggest diff i see in results is whether CAC or not...now in submitting cross overs between the two tpgs i see a noticeable bias....

[VKurtB]

On 11/5/2023 at 3:44 PM, zadok said:

...interesting, i see some preference among dealers between the two tpgs n whether US or foreign coins in diff holders but have not noticed much diff in auction results...the biggest diff i see in results is whether CAC or not...now in submitting cross overs between the two tpgs i see a noticeable bias....

I crossover some material from PCGS to NGC, and I "faux cross" other slabs to NGC, also. I have sometimes left previous ICG and ANACS coins in the inner gaskets, just to show it has been graded before by SOMEBODY. I have never personally had a single grade change from ANY service I have sent in, whether a true PCGS cross or another service's "faux cross". 100% have been identical.

Edited November 5, 2023 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

(Note:  Held for review by Moderation.)

There's no telling when the Great Zadok will show up, so I will keep this short.  My views on decapsulations are well-known: what God joined together, no man shall tear asunder. (Does this mean severing the connection between two continents at the Isthmus with the Panama Canal was wrong? Yes, but the principals paid the price.)

The only time decapitation, pardon, decapsulation is proper is when one TPGS will not accept a coin certified by another for inclusion in their Set Registry.  Anything else reeks of ingratitude--or greed. If a bona-fide hobbyist expresses displeasure with the assigned grade, he has an option: re-submit for re-consideration. 

[VKurtB]

On 11/5/2023 at 6:20 PM, Henri Charriere said:

(Note:  Held for review by Moderation.)

There's no telling when the Great Zadok will show up, so I will keep this short.  My views on decapsulations are well-known: what God joined together, no man shall tear asunder. (Does this mean severing the connection between two continents at the Isthmus with the Panama Canal was wrong? Yes, but the principals paid the price.)

The only time decapitation, pardon, decapsulation is proper is when one TPGS will not accept a coin certified by another for inclusion in their Set Registry.  Anything else reeks of ingratitude--or greed. If a bona-fide hobbyist expresses displeasure with the assigned grade, he has an option: re-submit for re-consideration. 

What if, as is the truth, I have ZERO confidence in PCGS' ability to grade European coins?

Edited November 6, 2023 by VKurtB

[ldhair]

On 11/5/2023 at 6:20 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Anything else reeks of ingratitude--or greed.

Thank you for insulting me once again. It's clear you can't read and understand my wish to have these coins in NGC or PCGS plastic when they go to auction. I want the buyer to have as much trust as possible in the holder and the coin. Most buyers of high end coins, trust NGC and PCGS. There is less respect for other tpg holders. It has nothing to do with greed. 

[VKurtB]

Henri needs to pay more attention to things beyond his narrow niche. Same with Goldfinger69. There are worlds beyond their gazes.

Edited November 6, 2023 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:27 PM, VKurtB said:

What if, as is the truth, I have ZERO confidence in PCGS' ability to grade European coins?

NGC seems to be the preferred grader for foreign/world coins.

[VKurtB]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:48 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

NGC seems to be the preferred grader for foreign/world coins.

Yup, and for good reason. I took the Summer Seminar course on Advanced Authentication of World Coins taught by two NGC executives.

Edited November 6, 2023 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/5/2023 at 8:29 PM, VKurtB said:

Henri needs to pay more attention to things beyond his narrow niche. Same with Goldfinger69. There are worlds beyond their gazes.

Don't ASSUME that I am confined to a narrow niche.   I can multitask multiple interests that are not tied to one another by any stretch. 

Even my 2nd word typed above has some significance though I doubt anybody here will get it unless they watched the ABC lineup in the early-1970's. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[ldhair]

I'm done with HC throwing darts at me and it's going to stop. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:27 PM, VKurtB said:

What if, as is the truth, I have ZERO confidence in PCGS' ability to grade European coins?

Confidence is a luxury I can ill afford as it pertains to my line of coins. It's amazing what a measly two-point spread can do to a man. 

[Henri Charriere]

To the OP:  No offense given; none taken.  Your first post makes it abundantly clear you have a legitimate concern.  My remarks were directed at those who engage in this type of activity nilly-willy, for sportand profit. I have nothing but the highest regard for you and your long-time endeavor.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:50 AM, ldhair said:

It would be a big time saver for me. 

How long DOES it take to crack these things out and what do you use exactly ?  Use like "Jaws Of Life" or whatever to take off the whole top of the slab or what ?

[ldhair]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:05 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

How long DOES it take to crack these things out and what do you use exactly ?  Use like "Jaws Of Life" or whatever to take off the whole top of the slab or what ?

There are many ways that work. I put on safety glasses and use a large pair of dikes/wire cutters. A few cuts at the edges and the slab will usually shatter. Some brands of slabs are tough to crack. It can make a mess. Some folks use a vice or a hammer. Some even use a band saw or table saw. The important thing is to hold the slab really tight and not let it fly across the room. 

[Zebo]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:59 AM, ldhair said:

There are many ways that work. I put on safety glasses and use a large pair of dikes/wire cutters. A few cuts at the edges and the slab will usually shatter. Some brands of slabs are tough to crack. It can make a mess. Some folks use a vice or a hammer. Some even use a band saw or table saw. The important thing is to hold the slab really tight and not let it fly across the room. 

What about a dremel tool?

[ldhair]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:09 AM, Zebo said:

What about a dremel tool?

I have done that. It's a safe method but the plastic dust goes everywhere. 

[zadok]

On 11/5/2023 at 8:25 PM, ldhair said:

Thank you for insulting me once again. It's clear you can't read and understand my wish to have these coins in NGC or PCGS plastic when they go to auction. I want the buyer to have as much trust as possible in the holder and the coin. Most buyers of high end coins, trust NGC and PCGS. There is less respect for other tpg holders. It has nothing to do with greed. 

...a bit clearer now, i had originally thought u were differentiating ur coins just between NGC n PCGS n wondered if u thought one generated better auction results than the other but i now see u meant between NGC,PCGS n all the other cert companies, makes sense n i for one agree....

[zadok]

On 11/5/2023 at 6:52 PM, VKurtB said:

I crossover some material from PCGS to NGC, and I "faux cross" other slabs to NGC, also. I have sometimes left previous ICG and ANACS coins in the inner gaskets, just to show it has been graded before by SOMEBODY. I have never personally had a single grade change from ANY service I have sent in, whether a true PCGS cross or another service's "faux cross". 100% have been identical.

...i very seldom break out a coin n send in with hopes for grade improvement, mostly my submissions r for cross over to the preferred tpg, i have had improved grades from other cert providers to NGC n PCGS but never between those two, my biggest take is that there is an obvious bias between the two on crossovers, one in particular has very high returns of "did not cross" when the submitted coin is in fact the grade stated...in one instance after two unsuccessful attempts to cross over, i broke the coin out n resubmitted n it graded the exact grade that wouldnt cross...just petty peeves that they dont want to acknowledge the other tpgs efforts...sad but part of the game....

[zadok]

On 11/5/2023 at 9:13 PM, ldhair said:

I'm done with HC throwing darts at me and it's going to stop. 

...its the only playground he has to play on, unfortunately hes way out of his league n becomes more n more irrelevant as time passes, that plus a one-trick pony which contributes very little to the forum...but there r worse....

[VKurtB]

On 11/6/2023 at 5:59 AM, ldhair said:

and use a large pair of dikes/wire cutters.

Yup, even a pair of gripping tools, like pliers.

[VKurtB]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:05 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

How long DOES it take to crack these things out and what do you use exactly ?  Use like "Jaws Of Life" or whatever to take off the whole top of the slab or what ?

I’ve seen a coin dealer at a show prop one end of the slab on a metal pipe and stomp on it. Problem solved. 

[ldhair]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:39 AM, VKurtB said:

Yup, even a pair of gripping tools, like pliers.

Yes. And if you have old hands you want the long ones. 8 or 10 inch.