Agree or Disagree -- and Why. 1 1

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:34 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Few would know this, but you heard it here first:  That number, 67.313, the "current finest possible set rating," was 67.219 for some time.  But neither number makes sense unless the two gold roosters certified and graded MS-68 were added to the Set Registry -- and they never were. Instead, they flew the coop and were cross-graded, successfully, at NGC -- and, again, not added to any Set Registry. The Great Zadok took especial delight in proclaiming I would never see them in my lifetime.  True, others have disagreed with him, but no one has contradicted him or proven him wrong.

All this may seem like an obsession of sorts to you, but it's as second nature to me as your pursuits are to you.

 

 

If I understand you correctly, there are only two MS-68’s regardless of date. What do you imagine the likelihood of either of them being owned by someone who has even HEARD OF registry sets, much less a participant? Not happening. They’re likely in France in a museum collection. Your highest risk are the unknown raw ones sitting in a bank vault somewhere, and not the two known 68’s.

Edited November 4, 2023 by VKurtB

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:06 PM, VKurtB said:

Not my dividing line. I would never consider getting ANYTHING graded that doesn't get above well into three digits, with the exception of things for competitive exhibiting aesthetic purposes. Actually, the decision is based on a price delta. If I don't get the cost of grading back PLUS the price delta between grades, that puppy ain't a-gonna git graded, period. Remember, I don't think in terms of registries.

It's not only for grading, registry, or sales reasons....many people want the holder to preserve the coins and/or easier handling.

[zadok]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:13 PM, VKurtB said:

Your lead of (65.906 minus 63.768 equals 2.138) is far safer than you imagine. Obsessing on a lead that considerable strikes me as borderline something or other. Forget the 67.313. That would require one guy having all the top pops. That ain't happenin'.

...careful im not sure u know of what u speaketh....

[zadok]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:34 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Few would know this, but you heard it here first:  That number, 67.313, the "current finest possible set rating," was 67.219 for some time.  But neither number makes sense unless the two gold roosters certified and graded MS-68 were added to the Set Registry -- and they never were. Instead, they flew the coop and were cross-graded, successfully, at NGC -- and, again, not added to any Set Registry. The Great Zadok took especial delight in proclaiming I would never see them in my lifetime.  True, others have disagreed with him, but no one has contradicted him or proven him wrong.

All this may seem like an obsession of sorts to you, but it's as second nature to me as your pursuits are to you.

 

 

...operative word...possible...once graded they were incorporated into possible....

[Henri Charriere]

Pretty soon you'll have me talking like former sec'y of DoD Don Rumsfeld what with his knowns and unknowns...

I don't know. You have to look for patterns of high-quality acquisitions, their progressions and refusal to fill the last slot until Godzilla shows up. The first two sets on NGC's S/R are incomplete. They are crocs in waiting for the perfect wildebeest to show up before they lunge. I cheat and look up their Set Histories. I surmise # 1 here is a dealer. Much like D.L. Hansen, he's prolific in his acquisitions. He's in the market for a high quality 1900. The Holy Grail. There are only two finer than mine ATS; ditto here. Most of them are incommunicado. It's not like I can pick up my cell, introduce myself and inquire as to what their intentions are. I am only one e-mail from landing my humongous swordfish, and resting on my laurels. I got this. Now Back on Track.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Add Back on Track!

[World Colonial]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:00 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Yes, true...but not even the ones I buy....let's say any coin over $50, $100 tops....which most every collector of any series would have to probably buy a few of these over time IF they were a serious collector who wanted a complete set OR a few nice "trophy" coins.

Forget my bullion (DEs, MSDs) targets. 

Have you ever submitted a coin yourself?

If you have, you'd know the improved marketability doesn't offset the cost on coins in this price range more than a low fraction of the time.

Most of the graded coins in this price range (or otherwise) are (world) silver NCLT (like ASE) and post-1998 US moderns.  The grading fee is lower on this coinage and probably most is bulk submitted (by dealers), but this doesn't hardly ever apply to end-user collectors.

For the collector, your example will work for the highest grade common (yes, most of these coins) world and US coinage that will end up in "66" or higher numbered plastic but which actually has no practical difference with lower graded (eligible) examples of the same coin.

[World Colonial]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:39 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It's not only for grading, registry, or sales reasons....many people want the holder to preserve the coins and/or easier handling.

The number of people who submit the coins themself is a lot lower than you think.  Most of these coins are submitted by dealers or eBay resellers.

You're using the same reasoning I've seen others make for world coins.  Over time, they see more non-US coinage in plastic sold by non-US sellers and assume non- US based collectors have an increased preference for it.

Well actually, the coin was almost certainly in the holder when the non-US seller bought it, after being submitted by a US dealer or collector.  I see more non-US coinage in plastic than I did before, but it's still a low minority.  Also, foreign sellers know that US based buyers prefer it and pay higher prices, so it's marketing to them and not locals.  There is seldom a reason for the non-US collector to pay TPG premiums because there is no market for these coins at this price locally and no practical difference between it and numerous others anyway.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/4/2023 at 10:07 AM, World Colonial said:

Have you ever submitted a coin yourself? If you have, you'd know the improved marketability doesn't offset the cost on coins in this price range more than a low fraction of the time.

Never have, WC. 

But for non-dealer collectors who submit a few times a year (figure 20-30 coins), my understanding is total per-coin costs for grading are about $35 ?

Edited November 4, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:39 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It's not only for grading, registry, or sales reasons....many people want the holder to preserve the coins and/or easier handling.

For me (and yes, I may be the unicorn here) I don’t LIKE handling slabs, if there is a useful other way to store a coin. I literally prefer raw coins. Want to see my box of high grade Sacs and Native American dollars, and the first few Innovation dollars? All of them well beyond 65’s?

Why on earth would I EVER want to get these slabbed? These capsules actually preserve coins BETTER than slabs do.

Edited November 4, 2023 by VKurtB

[World Colonial]

On 11/4/2023 at 11:59 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Never have, WC. 

But for non-dealer collectors who submit a few times a year (figure 20-30 coins), my understanding is total per-coin costs for grading are about $35 ?

Why would someone pay $35 to get a $50 to $100 coin graded, in volume?  That's a money losing proposition when coins store just fine outside of a holder. 

The oldest highest graded coin I submitted myself was a 1721 Spanish which graded MS-64.  It survived almost three centuries outside of a holder.

Rather than submit coins in your price range, the better strategy is either buy it already graded or not at all.

That's what I do now mostly.  I don't make impulse purchases or have "side collections" of this type.  I'm not interested in buying dozens to hundreds of coins in this price range (or somewhat higher) with mostly poor liquidity (graded or not) and which are almost guaranteed money losers.   That's easy to do over a collector's lifetime and it adds up.

I'd rather buy a (much) lower number of more expensive higher preference coins I actually want.

[World Colonial]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:04 PM, VKurtB said:

For me (and yes, I may be the unicorn here) I don’t LIKE handling slabs, if there is a useful other way to store a coin.

Another reason not to have too much graded is storage space.  My 5X10 SDB won't hold all my slabs and hasn't for some time.  I choose what to store based upon a combination of value and the difficulty of replacing it.

[VKurtB]

On 11/4/2023 at 11:33 AM, World Colonial said:

Another reason not to have too much graded is storage space.  My 5X10 SDB won't hold all my slabs and hasn't for some time.  I choose what to store based upon a combination of value and the difficulty of replacing it.

My SDB contains all my coins worth >$350 each because that’s how many will fit. My total collection comprises over 100,000 coins. And my numismatic library outweighs my coins. That even includes one by our Roger. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by VKurtB

[Henri Charriere]

Blast from the Past!

🐓:  I think you ought to pay closer attention to what @World Colonialhas to say.

H.C.:  I do but I'm in too deep to get out gracefully now.  He sees the Big Picture. I am fixated on acquiring one more Gold Rooster. After that I don't care what happens.  I'll be In Like Flint and the ten moderators monitoring my every move can get back to doing something more important like addressing the backlog and shortening turn-around times.