Gold Coins 1 1

[Halbrook Family]

I'd really like to have one gold coin. Maybe a max of $500. What coin would you suggest? I live close to Liberty Coins in Costa Mesa, CA. Better to buy from shop vs eBay?  1/10th oz vs others? New coin vs old coin? Already in coin grading slab vs not? 

[Halbrook Family]

1/20th oz for $184

[Lem E]

I would say it depends on what type of piece you are looking for. Are you looking for a collector piece or just bullion?

[Halbrook Family]

Both but I do not want to buy a slab of gold,

[Lem E]

I ask because of the difference in how I would buy between the two. All gold will have its metal/melt value no matter what you buy. If you are looking for a collector piece I would go with one that is already certified. If it was strictly a bullion buy for stacking then I would not buy a certified piece. If you can build a relationship with your local coin dealer then I would choose that route as opposed to ebay. 

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

Personally.  I would look for a $1 piece.  They will be small, but you may be able to snag a nice 62-63 at that price.  You can also look at quarter eagles.  Once you get into half eagles, you will need to up your budget a little (say to $800ish).  Look around, and don't feel that you need to buy the first piece you see... there are more pre-1933 gold coins than the infomercials want to  you to believe.

As @Lem E was suggesting... you will get more gold for the money if you go the bullion route, if that is the goal.

[Zebo]

I wouldn’t bother with any 1/10 coins. For suggestions, do you want U.S. or world - does it matter?

Quarter or half eagle 

Pre-1933 sovereign

1925 10 or 20 Polish Zloty 

French Napoleon or Rooster

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:14 PM, edhalbrook said:

1/20th oz for $184

If you're looking at these then you're looking more along the lines of bullion/stacking. I wouldn't go with modern bullion coins, at least nothing produced in the last 10 years, too much of a premium attached to them from the mints and resellers, I'd also stay clear of any modern proofs for the same reasons. I don't mind fractional gold but would stay away from anything under 1/10, to small to really enjoy imo. Pre '33 U.S. gold is probably you're best chance at seeing a decent return in the future. Personally, I'd look at several gold coins, U.S. and World, and narrow my list down to a few, then pick one after doing research, like availability, cost over spot, etc.. It may come down to "I like that design better" or the history behind it.

[EagleRJO]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:56 PM, edhalbrook said:

Both but I do not want to buy a slab of gold,

You might look at the American Gold Eagle (AGE) bullion coins as a good mix of the two.  I like the way they look, with a better strike than older pieces, and they are not just a slab of gold.  I buy the 1-ounce gold coins, but they have smaller ones like the attached $10 1/4-ounce AGE (as well as a similar $5 1/10-ounce AGE).

As Mike said they are more of a bullion coin, but so are the older ones as they were originally intended to just represent a certain dollar amount.  But I wouldn't consider the American Gold Eagles as collectable coins.

Beyond that I am partial to the earlier date Indian Head gold pieces, with good availability in general, but they go for a little more in a collectible MS grade so you would have to settle for less gold.

Edited October 19, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Sandon]

   If you're looking for gold content rather than numismatic value, understand that for the bullion coins the smaller the coin the higher the premium over its gold value. The price of gold would have to go up to $3,680 per troy ounce before the bullion value of the Mexican 1/20-ounce coin would equal what you paid for it. I'd prefer a lightly circulated U.S. quarter eagle (about 1/8 ounce) or, if you are willing to go to $600 or so, a Liberty head half eagle (about 1/4 ounce). A quarter ounce uncirculated American Eagle gold bullion coin, which has $482.04 in gold content at last week's final price, might also be a possibility if you are willing to exceed the $500 amount by a bit.

   As all gold coins are subject to being counterfeited, and as you are a new collector, I recommend that any gold coin you decide to purchase be third-party certified.

[Halbrook Family]

I want it as bullion but I want a coin because I'm a coin collector. 1/10 oz coin don't seem like a good deal. I mean if you can get a heavier piece for a bit more

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:46 PM, edhalbrook said:

I want it as bullion but I want a coin because I'm a coin collector...

Given this, I would buy AU Indian $2.50.  The incuse design will look very nice in AU, and you will get a significant price break.  You will have to stick to the common dates, but you can pickup a few dates at ~$500 per coin.  I would buy them graded to be sure that the coin is legitimate.

(Forgive me if you are aware already... but you will also want to scan the holder compare photographs, etc.  Because there ARE fake holders out there.) 

Edited September 24, 2023 by The Neophyte Numismatist

[Coinbuf]

On 9/24/2023 at 2:46 PM, edhalbrook said:

I want it as bullion but I want a coin because I'm a coin collector. 1/10 oz coin don't seem like a good deal. I mean if you can get a heavier piece for a bit more

This is rather confusing as you posted a 1/20oz coin above but consider a 1/10oz coin not a good deal?   In the end the choice comes down to what you like and what you want the coin for.   Modern bullion like the AGE series of coinage is fine, they are a nice pleasing design choice and easily bought and sold for stacking purposes.   Given your price point another great choice is what Neo suggested above, a nice AU Indian quarter eagle.

However, in my mind the best band for your buck is a $20 Saint.   Yes, that is well above your price target and you would need to save up for a bit, but it is a big gold coin and can often be found priced closer to spot (relative to the amount of gold) than most of the other choices.

[EagleRJO]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:46 PM, edhalbrook said:

I want it as bullion but I want a coin because I'm a coin collector.

I am a little confused by this as bullion coins and collectible coins are really two different things in my mind.  I am a coin collector but also buy gold/silver bullion bars and coins as noted above.  So for me the American Gold Eagle coins, or possibly Indian Heads or Saints in an AU grade, are a good middle ground with having gold bullion that looks really nice as a collector if that is what you mean.

Note that many don't consider gold coins in a circulated AU or lower grade as "collectible" coins.  If you want a collectible gold coin, such as the Indian Heads in an MS grade, you are no longer really buying it as bullion and will pay a significant premium above spot for them.  And I agree that anything other than modern gold bullion coins from and certified by a reputable bullion dealer should be slabbed as they are one of the most counterfeited coins.

[Fenntucky Mike]

Good points by all, lots of directions to go with such a general question, for a bullion piece it's hard to go wrong with a nice AU or low MS common date $2.50 Indian or SGDE. You'll pay a little extra for certification but it's probably worth it if your not familiar with these. In general,  counterfeits are less of a concern with world coins but buyer bewear. The more collected a coin the more one will come across fakes. Buy from a knowledgeable seller, especially if you're unfamiliar with the coin/series.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Fenntucky Mike
Spelling

[EagleRJO]

On 9/24/2023 at 8:57 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

You'll pay a little extra for certification but it's probably worth it if your not familiar with these

I would take a more cautious position on this as fairly knowledgeable collectors and even some dealers have been fooled by fake gold coins produced in the Middle East during the 1960s and 1970s in response to FDR's Great Government Gold Heist.

Even though they are made with somewhat inferior gold and a weaker strike that often has some telltale die transfer or tool marks, they can be extremely deceptive and dominate top counterfeit lists.  Particularly gold Indian Head half eagles and quarter eagles like on NGCs top 50 counterfeit list ...

https://www.ngccoin.com/resources/counterfeit-detection/top/united-states/

So I would recommend that ANY gold coin other than modern gold bullion coins from and guaranteed by a reputable bullion dealer (e.g. Apmex or JD, and the "Mint Direct" coins in particular) should be slabbed by a TPG.

https://www.apmex.com/mintdirect

Edited September 25, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Zebo]

On 9/24/2023 at 8:57 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Good points by all, lots of directions to go with such a general question, for a bullion piece it's hard to go wrong with a nice AU or low MS common date $2.50 Indian or SGDE. You'll pay a little extra for certification but it's probably worth it if your not familiar with these. In general,  counterfeits are less of a concern with world coins but buyer bewear. The more collected a coin the more one will come across fakes. Buy from a knowledgeable seller, especially if you're unfamiliar with the coin/series.

PM sent

[RWB]

I suggest looking for a nice AU/Unc half eagle or coin of similar size that actually was used as money. Buy only from a well-established seller. These are mostly bullion but in just about its cheapest form. Avoid the modern concoctions - they are either intended for jewelry, or to fleece the lambs. Plus, they have no history or character. You can muse about those who might have used a circulating coin, but not about the modern stuff.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 9/24/2023 at 5:46 PM, edhalbrook said:

I want it as bullion but I want a coin because I'm a coin collector. 1/10 oz coin don't seem like a good deal. I mean if you can get a heavier piece for a bit more

Any thoughts about upping the $$$ and buying a 1 ounce gold coin like a modern American Gold Eagle or a classic Saint-Gaudens or Liberty ?  You can buy one in AU condition to save on cost.

Then you have an ounce of gold AND a beautiful conversation piece.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Recommend an 1862 $1 US Gold, around MS 64.

You get a piece of history (US Civil War) and for a small gold coin it will hold its own among your other coins… may even whet your appetite for collecting other US gold.

They don't call it "gold fever" for nothing.

[Halbrook Family]

The prices on the 1862 are all over the place. I have been looking at the 1/4 oz Liberty eagle at the coin shop. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/19/2023 at 8:44 AM, edhalbrook said:

The prices on the 1862 are all over the place. I have been looking at the 1/4 oz Liberty eagle at the coin shop. 

It's really your choice, Ed....I would just say if this is going to be your ONLY or one of your very FEW purchases, you might want to get something with a bit "extra" from a historical perspective.  Hence my plugging of a Double Eagle.

[EagleRJO]

On 10/19/2023 at 10:32 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

... you might want to get something with a bit "extra" from a historical perspective.  Hence my plugging of a Double Eagle.

I know you like Saints, but at 4x the gold and about 3x to 4x the price of the half-eagles being discussed that is way more than a "bit extra" in term of the gold. Talk about up-selling. 

On 10/19/2023 at 8:44 AM, edhalbrook said:

The prices on the 1862 are all over the place. I have been looking at the 1/4 oz Liberty eagle at the coin shop. 

The price of the 1862 G$1 can vary, and are much smaller with only 1/20 ounce of gold.  The 1/4 ounce $5 Liberty Head half-eagles are pretty nice, and likely not much above your target cost lightly circulated.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/19/2023 at 1:46 PM, EagleRJO said:

I know you like Saints, but at 4x the gold and about 3x to 4x the price of the half-eagles being discussed that is way more than a "bit extra" in term of the gold. Talk about up-selling. 

I have no financial interest, though I am "talking my book" as they say in the trade.   A $10 Eagle would also be nice and have some historical significance, though not as much.  But it would cut the cost in half or more.  

If you are going to look at and show the coin...then size matters a bit (at least from my perspective).

On 10/19/2023 at 1:46 PM, EagleRJO said:

The price of the 1862 G$1 can vary, and are much smaller with only 1/20 ounce of gold.  The 1/4 ounce $5 Liberty Head half-eagles are pretty nice, and likely not much above your target cost lightly circulated.

Premiums on moderns can be very high for sub-ounce coins:  1/20th expect 40-50% if not more.....1/10th at least 40%.....1/4 figure about 25%.  At half and full ounce it falls to single-digits.

Edited October 21, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[EagleRJO]

On 10/20/2023 at 1:29 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Premiums ... can be very high for sub-ounce coins:  1/20th expect 40-50% if not more [etc] ...

That's why I don't think the 1/20th ounce 1862 G$1 coin is a viable option if the op is also looking for gold content, and the reason I stick with 1-ounce gold coins.  Except for the 1/4-ounce $5 Indian Head Half Eagles, because I really like the design of those coins and the way they look

However the 1-ounce or even 1/2-ounce gold coins would be way above the op's target price, so I think the 1/4-ounce $5 Liberty Head Half-Eagle or even the 1/4-ounce $10 American Gold Eagle coins are more viable options.

I actually really like the design of the AGE's thru 2021 with the Saint-Gaudens like obverse and flying eagles on the reverse, which I think has more detail and a better strike than older bullion coins like the Saints.

Edited October 21, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 10/20/2023 at 1:29 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Premiums on moderns can be very high for sub-ounce coins:  1/20th expect 40-50% if not more.....1/10th at least 40%.....1/4 figure about 25%.  At half and full ounce it falls to single-digits.

Those premiums seem very high to me for moderns, especially world modern, more like half those numbers (or less) in my experience for common pieces. Absolutely correct in that premiums drop significantly as you go up. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 10/20/2023 at 2:22 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Those premiums seem very high to me for moderns, especially world modern, more like half those numbers (or less) in my experience for common pieces. Absolutely correct in that premiums drop significantly as you go up. 

I haven't bought them in a long time (10 years) so it's possible the premiums have fallen, FM.  You may be correct.  Also, I got mine from a LCS, albeit one who is very fair and worked on reasonable spreads from my perspective (at least on 1 ounce stuff). 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 10/20/2023 at 8:05 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I haven't bought them in a long time (10 years) so it's possible the premiums have fallen, FM.  You may be correct.  Also, I got mine from a LCS, albeit one who is very fair and worked on reasonable spreads from my perspective (at least on 1 ounce stuff). 

I like 1/10, I'm talking NCLT in this instance. I'm paying more of a premium for common pieces, ones with collector or numismatic premiums cost what they cost, but that price level allows me to collect what I like and collect by date and variety. I would much rather have a complete set of fractional gold than a type set or collection of one or two pieces, I'd by a gold bar or nugget before I did that, even if it means I'm not maximizing my $'s. I'm not arguing against 1oz or circulated gold coins, just giving a different point of view. I like what I like. 👍