What are the top unanswered questions in American numismatics today? 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/15/2023 at 11:30 PM, VKurtB said:

And NOBODY NEEDS TO KNOW - LITERALLY NOBODY.... The Federal Reserve system owns EXACTLY and PRECISELY ZERO GOLD! None whatsoever. And it never has owned any.

At the risk of having a covert assasination attempt made on my life, I would "like" to know. As far as ownership, let's just say they act as one giant Safe Deposit Box. Eight U.S. Marines were ordered to enter and seize Haiti's gold bars following our invasion in 1915. It was transferred to a predecessor of today's New York's Citibank at 53 Wall Street.  (A custodian showed me the empty vaults they were once secured in.) The story gets murky after that and was the least of the country's problem which was forced to pay France $2B in today's money lest they be forced go to war with France. A query on this subject produced several credible replies, but with no one left in charge in Haiti today -- its President assassinated-- not to mention a devastating earthquake followed by a hurricane which damaged the Presidential palace, it's anybody's guess as to where it is.  Is its whereabouts a top unaswered question in U.S. "new-mis-matrix"? That depends on the mercurial mood of the Grand Master who sits on high in Virginia biding his time quietly [He told me, in essence, to Get Lost earlier in this column.]   All agree he evinces a power far beyond those of mortal men.  🤣

[VKurtB]

On 8/16/2023 at 11:51 AM, Henri Charriere said:

At the risk of having a covert assasination attempt made on my life, I would "like" to know. As far as ownership, let's just say they act as one giant Safe Deposit Box. Eight U.S. Marines were ordered to enter and seize Haiti's gold bars following our invasion in 1915. It was transferred to a predecessor of today's New York's Citibank at 53 Wall Street.  (A custodian showed me the empty vaults they were once secured in.) The story gets murky after that and was the least of the country's problem which was forced to pay France $2B in today's money lest they be forced go to war with France. A query on this subject produced several credible replies, but with no one left in charge in Haiti today -- its President assassinated-- not to mention a devastating earthquake followed by a hurricane which damaged the Presidential palace, it's anybody's guess as to where it is.  Is its whereabouts a top unaswered question in U.S. "new-mis-matrix"? That depends on the mercurial mood of the Grand Master who sits on high in Virginia biding his time quietly [He told me, in essence, to Get Lost earlier in this column.]   All agree he evinces a power far beyond those of mortal men.  🤣

I tell you with every bit of sincerity that I can muster that I don’t care.  What eight Marines did or did not do with gold that was or wasn’t Haiti’s doesn’t amount to a small pile of mouse feces, by way of importance. I am a strong believer in what a Russian scientist calculated. He argues that many molten metals make up the earth’s core, not just iron. At the innermost core are the molten metals of the highest density, including lead, gold, and platinum. The Russian has calculated that if there were a method to extract that gold at the inner core, there would be enough to cover the entire earth’s surface to a depth of about eight inches. Gold? Interesting? Not to me, sir. Not to me. It all came from a supernova explosion billions of years ago, and there’s plenty of it. You just have to go get it. WHERE you get it is none of my concern. My best recommendation is NOT mole holing, but mining asteroids. Uganda still claims to have 31 million tons of the stuff.

Diamonds are kept artificially expensive by the actions of a cartel known as the DeBeers Group. They make OPEC look like amateurs. Who’s to say the same thing isn’t already happening to gold? $3,000 gold? I think we need $30 gold. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by VKurtB

[Zebo]

On 8/16/2023 at 1:27 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

It "owned" gold before FDR's EO that mandated it transfer it to the Treasury.  Most of the Fed higher-ups objected.

I don’t think so!

disregard I misread your comment. Sorry.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Zebo

[RWB]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:07 AM, PSUMAN08 said:

Roger, I wonder if there is more information out there about what US coins (likely gold) that are considered rarities may not be if/when the next shipwreck is found.  A second topic, which I know Bowers has investigated, is what else can we find out about 1964D Peace Dollars.

#1. 1964-D Peace dollars. There's a lengthy chapter in my book A Guide Book of Peace Dollars. That includes all the facts, not gossip and nonsense. Nothing new has been located since the book was last updated.

#2. Not really. Most "lost treasure" inventories are either lost or never existed on a level of coin collector interest. The various ship wreck contents were also unknown until the wrecks were located and looted (umm...explored for profit).

[RWB]

Anyone have serious responses (in addition to the several that have been posted)?

Quintus/Henri --- please just go away. Thank you.

[GoldFinger1969]

I guess "illegally" produced or released coins like the 1943 cent....the 1974 penny.....the 1964-D Peace dollar...and of course, the 1913 Liberty Nickel.

There must be more. 

I'd like to see a thread listing all of them with the quick story behind their creation...release....if the government considers their possession illegal...and if so, if they are believed to exist or were all destroyed.  You know, the short story behind them.

 

[zadok]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:01 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

I guess "illegally" produced or released coins like the 1943 cent....the 1974 penny.....the 1964-D Peace dollar...and of course, the 1913 Liberty Nickel.

There must be more. 

I'd like to see a thread listing all of them with the quick story behind their creation...release....if the government considers their possession illegal...and if so, if they are believed to exist or were all destroyed.  You know, the short story behind them.

 

...the irony is that the 1913 v nickels should be treated the same as the 1933 saints...the 1943 cents prob not so much since they were released by the govt thru authorized means...prob those sac muled dollars should be illegal to own as well...either that or they all should be on equal footing....

[samclemen3991]

I don't know if it is a great unanswered mystery but I have always wondered about the who and the why involving the New Orleans Seated Dollars of 1859 1860.  Everyone seems to know they were released a hundred years later.  Was that a long term plan?  Was there some doubt as to who struck them?    Obviously the Civil war played a role but why bury the coins for a century?  I have never found a specific answer to this in the Gorbrecht Journals I have access to but my access only goes to 2014.  

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/17/2023 at 10:34 AM, zadok said:

...the irony is that the 1913 v nickels should be treated the same as the 1933 saints...the 1943 cents prob not so much since they were released by the govt thru authorized means...prob those sac muled dollars should be illegal to own as well...either that or they all should be on equal footing....

A Treasury official once SAID decades ago that the 1913 Liberty Nickels should be confiscated.  The problem is there have been numerous sales of the coin over time and the government said nothing.  That wasn't the case with the 1933 DE's, though it's a weak argument, IMO.

Not familiar with the Sacagawea "muled dollars" (whatever that is). 

Edited August 17, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

On 8/17/2023 at 10:43 AM, samclemen3991 said:

I don't know if it is a great unanswered mystery but I have always wondered about the who and the why involving the New Orleans Seated Dollars of 1859 1860.  Everyone seems to know they were released a hundred years later.  Was that a long term plan?  Was there some doubt as to who struck them?    Obviously the Civil war played a role but why bury the coins for a century?  I have never found a specific answer to this in the Gorbrecht Journals I have access to but my access only goes to 2014.  

 

New Orleans' large production of silver dollars in 1859 and 1860 was intended for export trade to Asia. US merchants were attempting to compete with Mexican 8 Reales/Pesos. Persistent failure led to the Trade dollar and the mess it created.

I recall there was only 1 bag of 1860-O dollars in the Treasury release from the early 1960s --- but my memory might be faulty.

Edited August 17, 2023 by RWB

[PSUMAN08]

On 8/16/2023 at 8:08 PM, RWB said:

#1. 1964-D Peace dollars. There's a lengthy chapter in my book A Guide Book of Peace Dollars. That includes all the facts, not gossip and nonsense. Nothing new has been located since the book was last updated.

#2. Not really. Most "lost treasure" inventories are either lost or never existed on a level of coin collector interest. The various ship wreck contents were also unknown until the wrecks were located and looted (umm...explored for profit).

Thanks Roger.  The Peace Dollar book is fantastic and I have read it cover to cover.  My mistake in crediting Bowers.  

[Zebo]

I know.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Zebo

[RWB]

Ya' got me stumped, there. I know nothing about these and other silver tokens or medals. Sorry.

[The quote on the medal is widely confused. Here is the full text:

Article I, Section 10, Clause 1:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

This clause refers specifically to actions prohibited to individual states, not to the Federal Government. States may issue bills of credit, bonds, certificates of indebtedness, etc.]

[Zebo]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:39 PM, RWB said:

Ya' got me stumped, there. I know nothing about these and other silver tokens or medals. Sorry.

[The quote on the medal is widely confused. Here is the full text:

Article I, Section 10, Clause 1:

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

This clause refers specifically to actions prohibited to individual states, not to the Federal Government. States may issue bills of credit, bonds, certificates of indebtedness, etc.]

Yep, but that would be a lot to fit on a round. 

[RWB]

The false part is not the text - it's the insinuation that legal tender had to be gold or silver. That is the kind of half-truth used by people with a biased agenda to inflame and confuse others.

Edited August 19, 2023 by RWB

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:27 AM, zadok said:

...obviously some members here still dont grasp the meaning of "meaningful" n prefer to go off on tangents bout grading, regurgitating bout unavailable coins n other esoteric exercises in vocabulary n non-numismatic syntax....

Note:  ALL objectionable, offensive, irrelevant, non-meaningful, non-numismatic syntaxes and wordsmithing have been removed to the extent possible, voluntarily, with an assist from Moderation.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Addition of one word.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/17/2023 at 4:10 PM, RWB said:

The false part is not the text - it's the insinuation that legal tender had to be gold or silver. That is the kind of half-truth used by people with a biased agenda to inflame and confuse others.

Weren't most coins gold or silver in the U.S., let's say, pre-1900 ?  1860 ?

I'm just asking, not insinuating. 

[World Colonial]

On 8/19/2023 at 11:03 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Weren't most coins gold or silver in the U.S., let's say, pre-1900 ?  1860 ?

I'm just asking, not insinuating. 

Big difference between "most" and "all".  1/2C, cents, 2C, 3CN, and nickels weren't gold or silver.

[RWB]

By piece count, most US coins were copper, then copper-nickel (88-12%).

[ldhair]

On 8/16/2023 at 7:45 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Well... I keep thinking the gentleman who intercedes unexpectedly, with a curt  Back onTrack, will show up, but he's deeply implicated in another vintage column from which extrication is apparently not possible. Continual monitoring can get to anyone, but truth be told, that is the source of his malaise.

It's clear you can't follow the rules on this site. Keep me out of your madness. Keep your insults to yourself.

[ldhair]

Probably only important to just a few but I would be interested in anything you find about all the multi-denominational clash die coins in 1857. Someone had to be playing around with dies and a press. Those in charge must have known about it.  

[zadok]

On 8/19/2023 at 6:17 PM, ldhair said:

Probably only important to just a few but I would be interested in anything you find about all the multi-denominational clash die coins in 1857. Someone had to be playing around with dies and a press. Those in charge must have known about it.  

...most assuredly n it continued briefly into 1858....

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/19/2023 at 6:17 PM, ldhair said:

Probably only important to just a few but I would be interested in anything you find about all the multi-denominational clash die coins in 1857. Someone had to be playing around with dies and a press. Those in charge must have known about it.  

Yes, from reading the Bowers LH DE book, controls on coinage, dies, strikings, etc.... were sorely lacking until the 1900's.

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/19/2023 at 5:57 PM, ldhair said:

It's clear you can't follow the rules on this site. Keep me out of your madness. Keep your insults to yourself.

Wholly unintentional oversight on my part. Your wish is my command. I have asked Moderation to assist me with the exorcism of the comment.  

To the OP:  I apologize for the intrusion.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Apology to OP

[RWB]

On 8/19/2023 at 6:17 PM, ldhair said:

Probably only important to just a few but I would be interested in anything you find about all the multi-denominational clash die coins in 1857. Someone had to be playing around with dies and a press. Those in charge must have known about it.  

Will add this to the info wanted list. Only the engraver's and local mint die records MIGHT have these data -- and almost all of those docs are "missing?"

On 8/19/2023 at 7:11 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Yes, from reading the Bowers LH DE book, controls on coinage, dies, strikings, etc.... were sorely lacking until the 1900's.

Much depended on the Coiner's attitude and DM's orders when he was located at the Philadelphia Mint. Die control from 1873 forward was very tight; before then less so especially before about 1856 when the Coiner did most the working die manufacture. Things became tighter once Longacre got direct control over die production.

Edited August 23, 2023 by RWB

[VKurtB]

On 8/17/2023 at 3:10 PM, RWB said:

The false part is not the text - it's the insinuation that legal tender had to be gold or silver. That is the kind of half-truth used by people with a biased agenda to inflame and confuse others.

Many of them on ads with washed up actors on FOX channels.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 8/22/2023 at 3:27 PM, VKurtB said:

Many of them on ads with washed up actors on FOX channels.

Hey, William Dafoe is an underrated actor.....great in "MARATHON MAN" and I also liked him in "24" 

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/23/2023 at 11:29 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Hey, William Dafoe is an underrated actor.....great in "MARATHON MAN" and I also liked him in "24" 

[WILLEM Dafoe (and Edgar ALLAN Poe)]  

[zadok]

On 8/23/2023 at 11:29 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Hey, William Dafoe is an underrated actor.....great in "MARATHON MAN" and I also liked him in "24" 

...jessie stone series....