Numismatic nomenclature 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

I have three questions concerning terms being used right now in connection with a coin being auctioned by Great Collections. The description reads:

1856 FLYING EAGLE CENT - ANACS NET Proof 12 - DETAILS GRAFFITTI.

The current bid is $6500. with minimal further bids accepted in increments of $250. The auction ends Sunday, Aug. 6, 2023, morning PST. GC Item ID: 1413432. B7

Q1:  What does NET Proof-12 mean? 

Q2:  Would those  members who insist on an explanation of DETAILS be satisfied with the the characterization "GRAFFITI" as sufficient?

Q3:  GC accepts payment, of among other things, check/money order. Today, members who [secretly] denounced me as an unenlightened nincompoot for "parking" my money in "non-interest-bearing" USPS money orders will be delighted to learn their instincts were correct. My wife attempted to redeem a $1000. m.o. placing the recipient's name (her sister) on both the m.o. and stub.  [She had done this without my knowledge and consent.] Remedy proposed by the USPS: Report it stolen, and wait for the result. Cost: $17.30 for "Money Order Inquiry" i.e., an intensive nationwide search for an instrument we were holding in our hands. [Savvy collectors know there is a limit of $1,500. per USPO money order and no more than $3,000. may be purchased by one person at any one time.] Such instruments do not expire!   However, banks are not obliged to accept them. I do not know what GC's policy re money orders is, but I do know if a buyer wishes to retain his anonymity, he's going to need help.

So what about all the other [unfilled out] postal money orders? They cannot be used internationally and it is pretty clear domestic sellers are leary of them for the same reason they refuse to accept personal checks.  I suspect there is a special postal unit dedicated to resolving such matters.

The clerk behind the counter asked me why I did not charge my wife, of seven (7) years, standing right beside me, with attempted theft. [She was walking out the door with an envelope held palm up before I intercepted her at the front door and asked her, "We are leaving in two minutes. If you are going to mail something downstairs or take something to the refuse room right by the elevator, why can't you wait?" She froze like a deer in headlights. Theft? This is the same woman who told me I told her she should send money to her sister when she injured herself, lost her job, lost her income -- and her apartment. "When did I tell you that?", I asked her. "You know, when we got married.".[SEVEN YEARS AGO!] How do you reason with a woman who refused a deli clerk's offer of a sample of cheese, without tasting it, saying, "I don't want it! I don't need it!"  Outside, I asked her why she refused to taste the cheese. She told me with a deadpan look, "It had holes in it."  (It was Swiss cheese.)    

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Attn: Moderation...

In the interests of preserving band-width, feel free to remove this any time as you see fit.

[Sandon]

Q1: ANACS in its "small white holder" days used to give a "net grade" based upon its graders' perception of the severity of a "details" graded coin's impairment. (The details grade, such as "VF details". would usually be stated.) It is really up to the individual collector to decide what such a coin is worth based upon the individual's own judgment and taste.

Q2: I would want to see the coin or at least good photos of it to judge the severity and level of distraction presented by the "graffiti", which usually means letters, numbers or doodles lightly scratched into the coin's surface.

Q3: No comment. There doesn't seem to be a question, anyway.

[RWB]

On 8/5/2023 at 6:37 PM, Sandon said:

doodles lightly scratched into the coin's surface.

...Cheese Doodles   ?

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/5/2023 at 8:03 PM, RWB said:

...Cheese Doodles   ?

Actually, a gentleman's signature written with an old-fashioned flourish.  It is my understanding some collectors do not object to a personal touch on an old coin. The only other instance I can recall where coins are purposely "damaged," with "chop marks" are the Trade Dollars which are accepted as historical artifacts.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Henri Charriere
Substitution of incorrect term for the correct one.

[RWB]

This is touching on "Gnomen Clattle" outstanding in their field.

[Conder101]

Q1  All 1856 were, in theory, struck as Proofs (Yes I know they weren't but the TPG's had so much trouble separating the Proofs from the Unc that they finally decided to just call ALL of them Proof.)  So Net Proof-12 Details Graffiti means that it is a Proof, it has deliberate scratching of something on the surface (graffiti) and because of that if has had its grade reduced to that of a 12 grade coin (the net grade)

Q2. As Sandon says I would also want to see a good image to be able to tell how bad the damage was so I could decide if the had reduced the grade enough or not enough.

Q3. GC's bank is willing to accept checks and/or money orders from them.

[zadok]

On 8/8/2023 at 3:45 PM, Conder101 said:

Q1  All 1856 were, in theory, struck as Proofs (Yes I know they weren't but the TPG's had so much trouble separating the Proofs from the Unc that they finally decided to just call ALL of them Proof.)  So Net Proof-12 Details Graffiti means that it is a Proof, it has deliberate scratching of something on the surface (graffiti) and because of that if has had its grade reduced to that of a 12 grade coin (the net grade)

Q2. As Sandon says I would also want to see a good image to be able to tell how bad the damage was so I could decide if the had reduced the grade enough or not enough.

Q3. GC's bank is willing to accept checks and/or money orders from them.

...welcome back, i had always considered the run of a thousand as more or less patterns but have seen many that were of proof appearance n quality...i also remember considerations where net grades were given if the two sides of the coin were more than one grade apart, an averaging if u will, im not sure if any of the tpgs ever defined the term....