Legionary1 Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 On 7/30/2023 at 4:58 PM, Coinbuf said: I just hope that they don't make changes just for the sake of making changes, although that is sort of how this recent change feels. I'm definitely getting this impression.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) Talk about new changes... The latest innovation, ground-breakimg for NGC, is "New High-Security Holograms with Unique QR Codes." Way to go NGC! Edited July 31, 2023 by Henri Charriere Sneak preview Ali E. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rons Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 (edited) In the long run does this hurt or help CAC? I find the whole ordeal to be self centered and not beneficial to the hobby. Does it open the door for a new cac to grade the cac coins and differentiate them in the same way? Can a cac coin get a green bean or a gold bean? Do you automatically assume their coins are green bean certified? As my Uncle Bernie was fond of saying Bless bless what a mess. I feel like like i am tumbling into another rabbit hole. Not very reassuring at all. Not a good look for the hobby as a whole. Edited August 25, 2023 by rons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 @rons : Quite frankly, I ceded my position as a coin collecting enthusiast to the looming investor crowd a long, long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rons Posted August 25, 2023 Share Posted August 25, 2023 Fair point. I guess I am still stuck in blue books and searching pocket change. I am at the point in my life where i am considering inheritance for my kids equally as much as my joy in filling slots. Henri Charriere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted August 26, 2023 Share Posted August 26, 2023 On 8/25/2023 at 4:10 PM, rons said: In the long run does this hurt or help CAC? Why do you think this decision by NGC which is only for the NGC registry will have any effect on CAC? On 8/25/2023 at 4:10 PM, rons said: I find the whole ordeal to be self centered and not beneficial to the hobby. To what ordeal are you referring to? On 8/25/2023 at 4:10 PM, rons said: Does it open the door for a new cac to grade the cac coins and differentiate them in the same way? Can a cac coin get a green bean or a gold bean? CAC will not be reviewing CACG graded coins, period. While the grading and stickering are under the CAC roof so to speak each is its own separate operation yet viewed as identical from the CAC perspective. A CAC graded MS65 is, in the yes of CAC, the exact same as an NGC MS65 with a green bean. As such there will not be a need or a way for a CACG graded coin to be reviewed by CAC for a sticker. As a side note, a few people have been confused by seeing a green bean on the label of the new CACG holder. That is not to signify that it has been reviewed and awarded a green bean, but that the green bean is a brand symbol, no different than the fulcrum scale that NGC uses on its label. On 8/25/2023 at 4:10 PM, rons said: Not very reassuring at all. Not a good look for the hobby as a whole. I'm not sure why any of this makes you uneasy or feel like you're in a rabbit hole, and I do not share your sense of doom and gloom, in fact I think a new TPG can serve the hobby well as new competition is essential to keeping everyone (by everyone I mean the current TPG's) on their toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIII Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Coinbuf: "CAC will not be reviewing CACG graded coins, period. While the grading and stickering are under the CAC roof so to speak each is its own separate operation yet viewed as identical from the CAC perspective. A CAC graded MS65 is, in the yes of CAC, the exact same as an NGC MS65 with a green bean. As such there will not be a need or a way for a CACG graded coin to be reviewed by CAC for a sticker. As a side note, a few people have been confused by seeing a green bean on the label of the new CACG holder. That is not to signify that it has been reviewed and awarded a green bean, but that the green bean is a brand symbol, no different than the fulcrum scale that NGC uses on its label." By that logic, If CACG stickers a coin as an MS65 with their seal, it would equate to an NGC or PCGS graded MS64 or lower? How do they handle, as far as grading, "exceptional" coins, like their current Gold bean? I believe it is pretty confusing as well. That's just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 On 8/31/2023 at 12:58 PM, CIII said: Coinbuf: "CAC will not be reviewing CACG graded coins, period. While the grading and stickering are under the CAC roof so to speak each is its own separate operation yet viewed as identical from the CAC perspective. A CAC graded MS65 is, in the yes of CAC, the exact same as an NGC MS65 with a green bean. As such there will not be a need or a way for a CACG graded coin to be reviewed by CAC for a sticker. As a side note, a few people have been confused by seeing a green bean on the label of the new CACG holder. That is not to signify that it has been reviewed and awarded a green bean, but that the green bean is a brand symbol, no different than the fulcrum scale that NGC uses on its label." By that logic, If CACG stickers a coin as an MS65 with their seal, it would equate to an NGC or PCGS graded MS64 or lower? How do they handle, as far as grading, "exceptional" coins, like their current Gold bean? I believe it is pretty confusing as well. That's just my 2 cents. Perhaps my choice of words "under the same roof" is confusing you. CAC stickering happens in NJ, CACG grading happens in VA, when I use the term under one roof I just mean that they are owned/operated under the direction of one man, JA not that the operations are done in the same building. CACG does not "sticker" coins they grade coins, as such there is no stickering happening at the CACG operation in VA and there is no equation to another TPG's lower grade. Crossovers are done just like they are at NGC or PCGS, you submit your coins and have the opportunity to specify at what grade you are willing to have the coin crossed, CACG will either cross or not if the coin meets their definition of whatever grade the submitter has specified. And just as at NGC or PCGS if the submitter does not specify a grade to crossover CACG will cross the coin at the grade they feel is appropriate. The only difference between CACG and NGC or PCGS on crossover submissions is when the coin is in a CAC beaned holder, see the next section. Per CACG if a current PCGS or NGC graded coin with a gold CAC bean is presented for crossover it will almost every time be graded one grade higher than the grade opinion given by either PCGS or NGC. It is possible a coin can be given a grade higher than the next grade, but it is expected that those will be the exceptions not the rule. And on occasion if the coin has changed or "turned in the holder" after the gold bean was applied CACG may decline to cross. Per CACG if a current PCGS or NGC graded coin with a green CAC bean is presented for crossover it will almost every time be crossed at grade. Just like above, if the graders feel the coin is worthy it can be graded higher or if the coin has changed or turned after CAC reviewed and stickered the coin it can be declined for crossover. But JA has said that he does not expect very many gold bean coins to be sent for crossover as in many cases (right now) the market values a gold bean PCGS or NGC coin at prices for two or more grades higher than what the NGC or PCGS opinion shows. I think he is correct in that expectation as most submitters would be losing market value (at this time) by crossing NGC or PCGS coins that have been given a gold sticker. I hope that helps. As to how CACG will handle "exceptional" coins, I would assume they will handle them just the same as NGC or PCGS and apply the grade they feel the coin merits. CIII 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIII Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 That clears things somewhat for me. I assume CAC will start pulling back on their stickering service in NJ as it would seem a conflict, eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 On 8/31/2023 at 2:50 PM, CIII said: That clears things somewhat for me. I assume CAC will start pulling back on their stickering service in NJ as it would seem a conflict, eventually. I do not see the stickering service as any type of conflict personally, although I know some who do, and many think that the recent price increases for CAC stickering were a way to encourage submissions to the grading arm vs the stickering. Ja has signed a contract to continue the stickering for up to ten years, the key here is "up to". If the demand for the stickering service falls to a point that it is no longer financially feasible to continue then it could be closed down. So really it all depends on what the market calls for, if collectors and dealers still want and support the stickering service it will be around for a while. I have no way to see the data on how many submissions CAC receives now or in the past, but my gut tells me that the stickering service is still in demand and I do not see it shuttering for many years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
History Student Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 Same type thing happened with PCGS years ago. Really sad. My CAC stickers with their "NOW" CAC slabbing services seem somewhat devious. I Felt the same way with PCGS and their management doing their personal coins through PCGS and then selling them on the worldwide web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Marschand Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 I really like the NGC Registry. However, I’m disappointed that CAC coins were stripped of the extra points. I get that CACG is now a competitor but collectors of NGC graded coins with CAC stickers shouldn’t be penalized for this. Coinbuf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 (edited) I do not own any stickered coins but would imagine those that do represent a smaller percentage of collectors than those that don't, particularly on the NGC set registry. Now, if that's the case, then it is just as likely that while the ones who do are being penalized, the ones who don't are being rewarded. I say that only to acknowledge passions seem to rise every time what I term hybridization rears its head. Yesterday, there was hand-to-hand combat over the issue as to whether PCGS slabs ought to be able to reside on NGC set registries -- and, if so, how many points ought to be awarded them, if any, in rankings. Today, it's CAC. Tomorrow, who knows? Edited October 6, 2023 by Henri Charriere Die-polishing: Correct typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Ali E. Posted October 2, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted October 2, 2023 On 9/19/2023 at 10:33 PM, Bret Marschand said: I really like the NGC Registry. However, I’m disappointed that CAC coins were stripped of the extra points. I get that CACG is now a competitor but collectors of NGC graded coins with CAC stickers shouldn’t be penalized for this. Hello, @Bret Marschand. Thank you for the feedback. We apologize for any inconvenience and appreciate your support. CAC has severed the link to the NGC Registry program. As of summer 2022, we no longer have the capacity to automatically check their website for CAC verification. As mentioned in the post: It has recently come to our attention that the NGC Registry program is no longer able to access the CAC verification site. Therefore, we are unable to verify any newly added CAC coins nor award them any (additional) NGC Registry score points... It would be unfair for collectors who already had previously approved CAC coins to still hold that bonus while no other person can get any point bonus for their CAC coins. We had no choice but to remove the bonus for all CAC coins. It is important to ensure a level playing field for all participants. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted October 2, 2023 Share Posted October 2, 2023 I believe I would be remiss in my duty as an occasionally rambunctious self-described guest-moderator if I failed to note, publicly, the part I played in this debacle. True, I own no CACkled coins, but my, at times, childish antics amplified by needless wordsmithing detracts from the quality of experience enjoyed by the majority of members. While I have dispensed in large part with the tomfoolery, I alone must assume responsibility for the musical chairs involved which has grievously impacted on turn-around times and rankings earned by legitimate hobbyists due to the reconfiguring of scores. I sincerely apologize to all who have suffered and re-pledge my commitment to broaden, to the extent I am able, the "body of knowledge" as espoused by a late, great, distinguished numismatist whose name I am no longer permitted to utter in polite company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Marschand Posted October 4, 2023 Share Posted October 4, 2023 @Ali E., thanks for the feedback. Are CAC and NGC working to restore the link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Ali E. Posted October 4, 2023 Author Administrator Share Posted October 4, 2023 On 10/3/2023 at 10:41 PM, Bret Marschand said: @Ali E., thanks for the feedback. Are CAC and NGC working to restore the link? Hello, @Bret Marschand. It is totally up to CAC when they choose to restore it for us. We have not heard any update from them lately. If/when they do, we will post that information. Thank you. Fenntucky Mike and Henri Charriere 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
History Student Posted October 24, 2023 Share Posted October 24, 2023 CAC crossed the line when they decided to go into competition with NGC & PCGS. They sadly ruined THEIR STICKERS quire a bit. I have a few on my $20 Saints and that's the way it goes... Thank you to everyone who shared their opinions above. Like I said above PCGS did the same kind OF thing when their boss made special labels on their PCGS coins to snooker the public by "selling to them." Makes me appreciate NGC all the more, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physics-fan3.14 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Any update on this issue? Or, any update on a decision to accept CAC Graded coins into the Registry? I don't own any yet, but I'm looking at a couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Charriere Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 On 1/27/2024 at 10:22 AM, physics-fan3.14 said: Any update on this issue? Or, any update on a decision to accept CAC Graded coins into the Registry? I don't own any yet, but I'm looking at a couple. If I may, I should like to suggest decisions involving millions of dollars are not made lightly. True, NGC reversed it's course and accepted PCGS-certified coins, but the wonderful world of world gold languishes in limbo. Tell ya what, you have a number of years here, there, and everywhere, but wherever you may be, you'll be the first to know. I personally guarantee it. 🐓 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) On 1/27/2024 at 8:22 AM, physics-fan3.14 said: any update on a decision to accept CAC Graded coins into the Registry? I am curious about this as well, I do have CAC graded coins and would like to use them in the registry if possible. As I recall it was announced at 2022 FUN that the NGC registry would accept CAC graded coins into the registry. But that was prior to this disconnect between CAC and NGC. @Ali E. Edited January 28 by Coinbuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatala Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 So where do we stand does the NGC Registry accept CAC coins at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/8/2024 at 2:23 PM, Tatala said: So where do we stand does the NGC Registry accept CAC coins at all? Welcome to the forum, currently any NGC or PCGS graded coin with a green or gold bean can be used in the US coin registry. The registry will not identify the coin as having a bean and no additional registry points are awarded as was the case in the past. And unlike the PCGS registry there are no separate sets for coins with CAC beans. Coins that are graded by CACG are currently not being accepted and cannot currently be used in the NGC US coin registry. There have been no updates from NGC on this issue for quite some time and all inquiry attempts have gone unanswered by NGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatala Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) On 2/8/2024 at 4:36 PM, Coinbuf said: Welcome to the forum, currently any NGC or PCGS graded coin with a green or gold bean can be used in the US coin registry. The registry will not identify the coin as having a bean and no additional registry points are awarded as was the case in the past. And unlike the PCGS registry there are no separate sets for coins with CAC beans. Coins that are graded by CACG are currently not being accepted and cannot currently be used in the NGC US coin registry. There have been no updates from NGC on this issue for quite some time and all inquiry attempts have gone unanswered by NGC. On 2/8/2024 at 4:36 PM, Coinbuf said: Welcome to the forum, currently any NGC or PCGS graded coin with a green or gold bean can be used in the US coin registry. The registry will not identify the coin as having a bean and no additional registry points are awarded as was the case in the past. And unlike the PCGS registry there are no separate sets for coins with CAC beans. Coins that are graded by CACG are currently not being accepted and cannot currently be used in the NGC US coin registry. There have been no updates from NGC on this issue for quite some time and all inquiry attempts have gone unanswered by NGC. I have a coin that was graded by CACG, can I add it to the custom sets?? Thank you Edited February 8 by Tatala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/8/2024 at 2:44 PM, Tatala said: I have a coin that was graded by CACG, can I add it to the custom sets?? Thank you Yes, if you use the old registry system you can add a CACG coin to your inventory and you can then use it in a custom set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/8/2024 at 4:50 PM, Coinbuf said: if you use the old registry system you can add a CACG coin to your inventory and you can then use it in a custom set. @Tatala--Unless a coin has been NGC or PCGS (U.S. only) graded, I don't think that it will be publicly viewable in your custom set. Only you will be able to see it and only when signed in. This is the case with an uncertified coin I have in my custom set. Ali E. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On 2/8/2024 at 3:25 PM, Sandon said: @Tatala--Unless a coin has been NGC or PCGS (U.S. only) graded, I don't think that it will be publicly viewable in your custom set. Only you will be able to see it and only when signed in. This is the case with an uncertified coin I have in my custom set. You are correct @Sandon however, there is a work around for this problem. Here is a screenshot of one of my custom sets taken while I was not logged into the old registry system. As you can see I have several non NGC or PCGS coins in this set which are visible, the trick is that you have enter these coins as want list coins vs your inventory coins. Ali E. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Ali E. Posted February 12 Author Administrator Share Posted February 12 On 2/8/2024 at 4:36 PM, Coinbuf said: Welcome to the forum, currently any NGC or PCGS graded coin with a green or gold bean can be used in the US coin registry. The registry will not identify the coin as having a bean and no additional registry points are awarded as was the case in the past. And unlike the PCGS registry there are no separate sets for coins with CAC beans. Coins that are graded by CACG are currently not being accepted and cannot currently be used in the NGC US coin registry. There have been no updates from NGC on this issue for quite some time and all inquiry attempts have gone unanswered by NGC. Hello, @Coinbuf Please read the top of this post which was updated in January. If there are any changes or any news, we will post them there. NGC will make a bigger announcement, also, if/when there are any changes either way. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Ali E. Posted February 12 Author Administrator Share Posted February 12 On 2/8/2024 at 4:23 PM, Tatala said: So where do we stand does the NGC Registry accept CAC coins at all? Hello, @Tatala. Please read the top of this post which was updated in January. If there are any changes or any news, we will post them there. NGC will make a bigger announcement, also, if/when there are any changes either way. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad King Eric Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 MyCollect had no issues adding the CAC green designation to a coin. NGC did not add it to 4512248-011. I guess MyCollect is able to communicate with CAC and NGC can not? Unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
