The S.S. Central America, Tommy Thompson and that contempt of court citation. 1 1

[Henri Charriere]

The "Ship of Gold," S.S. Central America sank in September 1857 after encountering a hurricane off the Carolinas taking with it 425 passengers and some 15 tons of gold [not all of which has been recovered to date.]

In 2001 an 80-lb. gold ingot was sold to a private collector for $8 M.  Last year a 866.19 J & H ingot, one of dozens bearing that hallmark, was sold by Heritage Auctions for $2.16 M.  (I myself acquired a few gold granules after it was pointed out that those grains, vacuumed off the sea bed, were irrefutably Gold Rush gold.)

The details regarding the wreck and the aftermath are by now well known. The ship was located in 1988 and recovery operations began shortly thereafter. There was an article published in Reader's Digest followed by a book, "Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea," which was followed by a large coffee-table sized book replete with remarkably detailed color photos indicating exactly what the debris site looked like and the precise position of every coin, ingot, dust and relic recovered as well as a narrative and chronology of the entire expedition from beginning to end, save one: What happened to the research scientist, Tommy Thompson?

It turns out he was convicted of cheating investors out of their share of the investor funds raised and gold recovered and was subsequently sentenced to 2-1/2 years and a quarter-million dollar fine.  However, that sentence was deferred, as per plea agreement, until he disclosed to the Federal Court in which he was tried, the whereabouts of 500 coins [then] worth $2.5 M.

In the meantime, unbeknownst to those familiar with the story going back more than 30 years now, he has spent every day since 2015--i.e., 7 going on 8 years--as a detainee in a Federal lock-up for criminal contempt of court.

The discovery was deemed so significant that the editors of the Red Book devoted an entire section to the find in an edition circa 1990 or so due to the recovery of California coins and ingots produced by known and heretofore unknown assayers. It was a blemish on an otherwise incredible find made possible with an underwater submersible outfitted with bright lights and mechanical arms and fingers which worked the site some 7,000 feet below the surface in open ocean.

My question is why would a man, now 72 and in declining health, be so intransigent and determined to have his way knowing Federal authorities (who caught him after he fled once before) will never allow him to live in peace with his cache if he lives long enough to attain his freedom?  Your thoughts?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 6/4/2023 at 10:46 PM, Henri Charriere said:

My question is why would a man, now 72 and in declining health, be so intransigent and determined to have his way knowing Federal authorities (who caught him after he fled once before) will never allow him to live in peace with his cache if he lives long enough to attain his freedom?  Your thoughts?

No idea...I can speculate and come up with plausible hypotheses for stuff involving gold coins a century ago, but I can't make heads-or-tails of this.  Whole thing doesn't make sense, unless he's schizophrenic or just likes to steal. 

He should have been on Easy Street after the find...either he got greedy or borrowed from Bad Guys and feels safer in prison than outiside.

Whole things doesn't add up, maybe somebody who has followed this closer can offer a clearer speculation.  Must be people in the hobby who either know TT or somebody close to him.

[VKurtB]

On 6/4/2023 at 11:24 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

No idea...I can speculate and come up with plausible hypotheses for stuff involving gold coins a century ago, but I can't make heads-or-tails of this.  Whole thing doesn't make sense, unless he's schizophrenic or just likes to steal. 

He should have been on Easy Street after the find...either he got greedy or borrowed from Bad Guys and feels safer in prison than outiside.

Whole things doesn't add up, maybe somebody who has followed this closer can offer a clearer speculation.  Must be people in the hobby who either know TT or somebody close to him.

Expecting gold bugs to act like normal people is an expectation that may very well drive YOU mad.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

On 6/4/2023 at 10:46 PM, Henri Charriere said:

 

The discovery was deemed so significant that the editors of the Red Book devoted an entire section to the find in an edition circa 1990 or so due to the recovery of California coins and ingots produced by known and heretofore unknown assayers. It was a blemish on an otherwise incredible find made possible with an underwater submersible outfitted with bright lights and mechanical arms and fingers which worked the site some 7,000 feet below the surface in open ocean.

 

Reminds me of this epic scene.

At a depth of 7,000 feet, the sea pressure is around one and one half tons per square inch.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Some nice coins can be seen in this YouTube.

 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 6/5/2023 at 10:24 AM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

Reminds me of this epic scene.

At a depth of 7,000 feet, the sea pressure is around one and one half tons per square inch.

One of my absolute favorites! Always loved watching this on a hot summer afternoon, made me feel cooler on those hot days, and one of my favorite movie poster inserts.

[Henri Charriere]

On 6/5/2023 at 6:19 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

Some nice coins can be seen in this YouTube.

 

Excellent presentation!

[Henri Charriere]

On 6/5/2023 at 8:37 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

One of my absolute favorites! Always loved watching this on a hot summer afternoon, made me feel cooler on those hot days, and one of my favorite movie poster inserts.

For the benefit of those who were too young to remember or may not have yet been born, this was a 1968 film based on a 1963 novel by Alistair MacLean. Great scene, great movie!

[Henri Charriere]

[From a press release dated June 5, 2023 by J. Morrow-Hernandez (PCGS) entitled:  "The 'Ship of Gold' Docks at the Long Beach Expo [Convention Center] June 22-24, 2023.

" Visitors can expect to see a 40-foot replica of the S.S. Central America, millions of dollars worth of gold coins and ingots, and many other incredible artifacts recovered from the Atlantic Ocean shipwreck [that] will be on display."]

 

[VKurtB]

On 6/6/2023 at 5:43 PM, Henri Charriere said:

[From a press release dated June 5, 2023 by J. Morrow-Hernandez (PCGS) entitled:  "The 'Ship of Gold' Docks at the Long Beach Expo [Convention Center] June 22-24, 2023.

" Visitors can expect to see a 40-foot replica of the S.S. Central America, millions of dollars worth of gold coins and ingots, and many other incredible artifacts recovered from the Atlantic Ocean shipwreck [that] will be on display."]

 

And the ACTUAL submersible was on display at the ANA August convention last year in Rosemont, as well as hundreds of recovered artifacts. Look, Long Beach is a nice show. So is Central States. So is F.U.N. But nothing holds a candle to an August ANA show. Nothing.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

 

[Henri Charriere]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:33 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

 

First time I have seen these videos. T.T. can be seen twice with a dark head of hair and bushy beard. There are many losers here. The investors that bankrolled the expedition; T.T whose last booking photo showed him to be old, gray and haggard; a betrayal of trust with possible theft of the coins which were spirited out of the country possibly to Belize; an unforeseeable death in custody; and a great loss to the numismatic community of a significant "hoard" of California Gold Rush coins. [It is possible T.T. was counting on being released on the contempt charge and inadvertently boxed himself into a corner he is unable to extricate himself from. A truly sad ending to a ground-breaking venture by a research scientist and treasure hunting genius whose motive continues to be a mystery.

 

[GoldFinger1969]

I know that the coins sold at huge premiums to gold bullion because of all the hype...but is anybody aware at that time the coins were GRADED if the coins were overgraded, undergraded, or pretty much spot-on ?

It appears that the bulk of the coins would have been certified BEFORE standards started to loosen about 2003 or 2004 or so.

Most of the commentaries I've read seem to imply the coins are properly graded, just a question of how much to pay up for the SSCA hype.

Edited February 25 by GoldFinger1969

[RWB]

"Hype"has no value. A specific provenance might add 5% if it's of interest, but that's mere opinion.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

As I have an 1857 US gold quarter eagle minted in San Francisco — an important piece of my Puzzle Box Gold type set — my Owner Comments for the coin includes the mention that it pays homage to the SS Central America and that the ship had "its Stars and Stripes flag flown upside-down to signal the steamer’s dire distress."

That info was garnered from Wikipedia, but there is no reference cited there.  Literary License?  Could be.

One of my current research projects is determining the truthfulness of the flying of the flag upside-down.  The famous painting depicting the ship's sinking does not help.

Gary Kinder's Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea may be a future purchase of mine.

[Henri Charriere]

On 2/25/2024 at 1:30 PM, RWB said:

"Hype"has no value. A specific provenance might add 5% if it's of interest, but that's mere opinion.

But, but... that was the Ship of Gold!  The yield from that find was such that, in routine comments from buyers of gold, they would pointedly insist: No Shipwreck coins!  Why? Because they were exorbitantly priced: That was their provenance.  Gold "dust" vacuumed off the ocean floor at the site of the wreck was billed as not just any dust or nuggets, but indisputably "California Gold Rush" nuggets and dust.

[Henri Charriere]

On 2/25/2024 at 3:33 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

As I have an 1857 US gold quarter eagle minted in San Francisco — an important piece of my Puzzle Box Gold type set — my Owner Comments for the coin includes the mention that it pays homage to the SS Central America and that the ship had "its Stars and Stripes flag flown upside-down to signal the steamer’s dire distress."

That info was garnered from Wikipedia, but there is no reference cited there.  Literary License?  Could be.

One of my current research projects is determining the truthfulness of the flying of the flag upside-down.  The famous painting depicting the ship's sinking does not help.

Gary Kinder's Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea may be a future purchase of mine.

I do not recall having ever read, in any account, of the ship's flag being flown upside-down and cannot imagine anyone insisting on protocol at the height of a hurricane in a vessel that was stricken and taking on water. Following the sinking, one survivor who didn't feel he would make it, gave another, a freed man, an engraved silver cup with his wish that it be delivered to a man up North.  The freed man was saved -- and kept the man's dying wish!  Today, that cup is on exhibit at a museum.   Kinder's book is a gold mine of information and a large, coffee table-sized book, provides a narrative with many photos that dovetails very nicely with the story. One more detail, the city of Herndon, in Virginia, was named after the ship's captain. Great read!

Edited February 25 by Henri Charriere
Insert a line.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

The Red Book, my 2013 copy, received free of charge from Austin Rare Coins while accompanying my first-ever rare gold purchase, a $10 1881-CC Eagle…

WELCOME TO NUMISMATICS (page 34)

(midway down the page citing the SS Central America wreck)

"The ship was swamped, and the captain ordered the American flag be flown upside-down, a signal of distress."

[VKurtB]

On 2/25/2024 at 2:52 PM, Henri Charriere said:

But, but... that was the Ship of Gold!  The yield from that find was such that, in routine comments from buyers of gold, they would pointedly insist: No Shipwreck coins!  Why? Because they were exorbitantly priced: That was their provenance.  Gold "dust" vacuumed off the ocean floor at the site of the wreck was billed as not just any dust or nuggets, but indisputably "California Gold Rush" nuggets and dust.

That “Ship of Gold”stuff provides a TEMPORARY bump in prices that fairly quickly evaporates. Here is the rub. You can’t get one during the hype without paying up. You can’t buck the system. If you want to pay a normal price, you have to wait for somebody who has one (or their heir) to sell. Then you can do business. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 2/25/2024 at 3:33 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

As I have an 1857 US gold quarter eagle minted in San Francisco — an important piece of my Puzzle Box Gold type set — my Owner Comments for the coin includes the mention that it pays homage to the SS Central America and that the ship had "its Stars and Stripes flag flown upside-down to signal the steamer’s dire distress." That info was garnered from Wikipedia, but there is no reference cited there.  Literary License?  Could be. One of my current research projects is determining the truthfulness of the flying of the flag upside-down.  The famous painting depicting the ship's sinking does not help. Gary Kinder's Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea may be a future purchase of mine.

Bowers Whitman Red Book on DE's has a good accounting of the SSCA.  There were also some documentaries about 23-24 years ago.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 2/25/2024 at 5:01 PM, VKurtB said:

That “Ship of Gold”stuff provides a TEMPORARY bump in prices that fairly quickly evaporates. Here is the rub. You can’t get one during the hype without paying up. You can’t buck the system. If you want to pay a normal price, you have to wait for somebody who has one (or their heir) to sell. Then you can do business. 

I know.....premiums on the $50 re-strikes were about 700% to spot gold when they first came out.  I got one about 10 years later for about 10% premium. 

[RWB]

On 2/25/2024 at 3:52 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Ship of Gold! 

So what is that supposed to signify? The gold dust might be of slight interest since it is original from someplace in California -- or maybe Oregon. But it's of no research value since we don't know its source in CA.

[Henri Charriere]

On 2/25/2024 at 4:29 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

The Red Book, my 2013 copy, received free of charge from Austin Rare Coins while accompanying my first-ever rare gold purchase, a $10 1881-CC Eagle…

WELCOME TO NUMISMATICS (page 34)

(midway down the page citing the SS Central America wreck)

"The ship was swamped, and the captain ordered the American flag be flown upside-down, a signal of distress."

I do recall that a Red Book was dedicated to the recovery of various numismatic treasures, many unknown and unique, strewn over the debris field.  Sadly, any vessel in a position to provide assistance would have itself be in peril. I would imagine this assertion must have been made by a survivor; I assume the ship's log book was lost.

[USAuPzlBxBob]

My 2013 Red Book is the only copy I've ever seen, so I don't know what other year versions state regarding the SS Central America.

I'd be curious to know what other members find in their Red Books for years other than 2013, relating to this upside-down flag assertion.

Coming across the assertion was serendipity for me, to say the least.  I had no idea it was stated in the Red Book.

The other ships that leant help may have written in their logs mention of the upside-down flag.

Ordered Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea today; hard cover, used, very good condition. (Amazon)

[Henri Charriere]

On 2/26/2024 at 1:55 AM, RWB said:

So what is that supposed to signify? The gold dust might be of slight interest since it is original from someplace in California -- or maybe Oregon. But it's of no research value since we don't know its source in CA.

[My reply, submitted for your approval, has been enshrined in the aptly named, "Unsolicited Comments" thread, at the discretion of Moderation.]

[Henri Charriere]

On 2/26/2024 at 9:32 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

Ordered Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea today; hard cover, used, very good condition. (Amazon)

I am going to order a copy as well along with two other books I once had. Might ss well before lose my sight completely.

Re:  The upside-down flag. I do not recall any ships being in the immediate vicinity.  This greatly predates Samuel Finley Breese Morse's invention, the Morse Code. The sea was teeming with the cries of survivors in gale force winds. 

[USAuPzlBxBob]

[zadok]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:38 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

...AU55....

[Henri Charriere]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:38 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

Great book at a bargain price!  

[GoldFinger1969]

On 2/26/2024 at 9:32 PM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

My 2013 Red Book is the only copy I've ever seen, so I don't know what other year versions state regarding the SS Central America. I'd be curious to know what other members find in their Red Books for years other than 2013, relating to this upside-down flag assertion. Coming across the assertion was serendipity for me, to say the least.  I had no idea it was stated in the Red Book. The other ships that leant help may have written in their logs mention of the upside-down flag. Ordered Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea today; hard cover, used, very good condition. (Amazon)

My Whitman Double Eagle Red Book (not the Annual Red Book about all coins) has 5 full pages on the SSCA.  There's only 1 edition of this book (2004) but there is a bit more information that has come out on the total salvaged and a few other items, if they ever do a 2nd edition. 

My Annual Red Book is the 67th Edition, (c) 2013 like yours.  1 1/2 pages on shipwrecks and a bit under 1/2 page on the SSCA.  There's an error on the SS Republic where they say that 1,400 DEs were found dated 1838-1858.  DEs weren't struck until 1850 (excluding the sole 1859).

Edited March 1 by GoldFinger1969