Mike Meenderink Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) I place this 1854 w/ Arrows Half Dime in AU 53 Firm. Purchased $25.00 / $130.00-$160.00 Value Graded. What would you grade it? Edited January 24 by Mike Meenderink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 In my opinion, your 1854 half dime would grade no better than XF 40. (My grade after reviewing the ANA grading guide and PCGS Photograde would be VF 30.) Note the areas of flatness on Liberty's breast and knee and the shield on the obverse and the leaves on the reverse, as well as the lack of luster. The coin also has light damage and has possibly been cleaned, either of which could preclude a grading service numerical grade. Please check your own grading guide or, if you don't yet have one, PCGS Photograde (www.pcgs.com/photograde). You should never hold any collectible coin with your bare hands, except, if you must, by the edge. The oils from your fingers will gradually degrade the coin. AdamWL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 Sandom while I respect your opinion and advice two things.. I am pinching the tiny Half Dime between my 2 fingers not touching the devices with the finger behind. This is called the cradle method. I do this so if it falls I can catch it. Also when you handle your coins w/o gloves you should wash your hands thoroughly and dry your hands with a non paper towel. I handle all my non proof raw coins without gloves. Most graders do as well. Larger coins are easier to control sometimes these little dimes can get away from you. I also believe your grade assignment of VF30 is quite low. There is no damage or cleaning just light circulation wear on an original 169 year old coin. The coin is toned in a target which is appropriate for this coin. The colors of the oxidization are natural and appropriate. The surfaces have no signs of previous or recent cleaning, dipping or whizzing. The striations you may see on the dress are very light circulation marks not scratches. The flatness you refer to as to your low grade assignment does not exist. Look at the head its almost full. PS stop using PCGS Photograde it will rot your mind.Below is a VF30 Half Dime..not even close! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandon Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) It appears that the coin is lying on your fingers, not being held between them. I apologize for misinterpreting the photos. I don't know how much experience you have as a collector. Most of the newer members of the forum are also new collectors, so I endeavor to educate them about the basics. I hope that my over 50 years of experience as a collector qualifies me to do this. As I see it, the 1846 (a rare date worth certifying in any grade) that you show for comparison has more detail on the breast and knee than your 1854 and is reasonably graded VF 30. (PCGS may have deducted a few points for the darkness of the coin.) Respectfully, I can't see how your 1854 could possibly merit any AU grade. (Will the most recent (7th) edition of The Official American Numismatic Association Grading Standards for United States Coins, which I consulted as well as PCGS Photograde, also "rot my mind"?) It's your $23 grading fee, $10 processing fee, and shipping and insurance costs if you're convinced otherwise! In the future, you might want to post inquiries like this under either the "U.S., Foreign, and Ancient Coins" or "Newbie Coin Collecting Questions" forums, where they may get more responses. The "NGC Registry" forum is for questions about the Registry. Edited January 24 by Sandon Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 The coin looks to have secondary toning, while not unattractive it suggests that the coin may have been cleaned (dipped) in the past. This can be a very difficult series to grade from photos and less than full strikes are not uncommon for this date. The reverse is nicer (better) than the obv, and while both sides display xf/au details, the photos do not show any discernable luster. So from these photos I would call this an XF45, in hand I might see it differently. The only concern I have with grading is Liberty's cheek, there seems to be a rectangle shaped flat area. I cannot recall seeing something like that on any seated coin, and if that is some type of damage then it could receive a details grade. For reference here is a PCGS AU55 coin that is for sale on GFRC, this coin demonstrates just how difficult it can be to grade from photos as I would never guess this coin to grade as high as PCGS called it. Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samclemen3991 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I do not specialize in half dimes but my cursory grade would be xf-45. It can be hard to judge both luster and strike from a photo:; in hand my opinion might be completely different. In my opinion less than 1% of !% of Seated coins can be absolutely call "original". Having said that I don't see anything that would prevent it being slabbed. James Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 My first guess when viewing on my phone was VF, with XF a possibility, if more luster shows in hand than in the pictures. Viewing it on my laptop doesn't really change my opinion. I can't tell if that is a rim ding at about 6:30 on the reverse, or just a stain, but, if it is a ding, I don't think it would keep the coin from getting a grade. I also can't tell enough from the pics to offer an opinion on whether or not I think it might have been messed with, but I will say that (again, judging from the pictures) I like the look of the coin, since I have a feeling that the toning looks nicer in hand. Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) I’ve written before about how loathe I am to grade coins from photos. Why do you figure no grading firm will do it? It’s dumb to even consider such a question. That said, the VERY LAST series of coins I’d try it on is this one, with Barbers and Indian gold a close second and third. Grading requires all three dimensions AND the ability to swirl the coin in the axis of the light. Show me a photo that accomplishes that and we can talk. Edited January 24 by VKurtB Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 ...all the above in one aspect or another...photo grading just ballpark grading, nice eye appeal...no luster in the fields n bit choppy, most likely cleaned n retoned...id go with xf-40 obverse n xf-45 reverse...so net xf-40 coin in my opinion... Mike Meenderink and rrantique 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Obvious EF. Common coin. Nice to have, but not worth the fees. Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrantique Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 I am xf45 on this one. Mike Meenderink 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ldhair Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 40 Mike Meenderink and zadok 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Meenderink Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 I agree grading is not really possible with just a picture. This post is to get a basic feel for the coin. I will submit it since I enjoy grading and slabbing my type coins. I wanted to see what others felt about this coin. The toning may be retoning but it has a pattern that is natural. I dont think its cleaned..but you never know what NGC will say. I like the look of the coin and it does have underlying luster in hand. Now you see my dilemma its nice but is it nice enough to be a example in my type sets? I got it cheap. zadok 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...